Give the AI its medical overlay back
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Give the AI its medical overlay back
In the past the AI's medical overlay could see everyone's health. This was changed at one point to only allow the AI to see the health of people who turned on suit sensors.
The gameplay result is that as AI it is basically impossible to tell in most cases whether someone has been harmed, actually its impossible to distinguish between an unconscious and a dead person. For an entity who's default lawset completely revolves around preventing harm this is rather....impractical.
The AI is the only entity that can't examine things, so is the only one that doesn't have this information.
There have been several AI nerfs, but restoring the AI's ability to actually detects it's default primary objective seems only fair.
The gameplay result is that as AI it is basically impossible to tell in most cases whether someone has been harmed, actually its impossible to distinguish between an unconscious and a dead person. For an entity who's default lawset completely revolves around preventing harm this is rather....impractical.
The AI is the only entity that can't examine things, so is the only one that doesn't have this information.
There have been several AI nerfs, but restoring the AI's ability to actually detects it's default primary objective seems only fair.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
Why aren't the crew turning its suit sensors on?
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
Haha, everyone always spams turn suit sensors on, nobody ever listens.Saegrimr wrote:Why aren't the crew turning its suit sensors on?
This won't change.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:19 am
- Byond Username: Gun Hog
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
I am the one who coded this feature. The AI has never had a full medical or security HUD. I was asked to avoid this doing this. I wanted to provide Wanted status for the security HUD, but Aranclanos denied that request.CPTANT wrote:In the past the AI's medical overlay could see everyone's health. This was changed at one point to only allow the AI to see the health of people who turned on suit sensors.
The gameplay result is that as AI it is basically impossible to tell in most cases whether someone has been harmed, actually its impossible to distinguish between an unconscious and a dead person. For an entity who's default lawset completely revolves around preventing harm this is rather....impractical.
The AI is the only entity that can't examine things, so is the only one that doesn't have this information.
There have been several AI nerfs, but restoring the AI's ability to actually detects it's default primary objective seems only fair.
The medical HUD is an overlay for the suit sensors computer, and the security HUD was meant to be the same for the security records computer, but sadly I was unable to proceed with that.
I am sorry, I know from experience that you should not expect any improvements in the AI's ability to gather information. The best you can do is pretend to be the CMO and pester people about suit senosrs. Those who ignore you deserve to die and never be cloned anyway.
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/4525 if you wish to review the PR.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
Hmmm seems it was also a debated issue back then.Gun Hog wrote:I am the one who coded this feature. The AI has never had a full medical or security HUD. I was asked to avoid this doing this. I wanted to provide Wanted status for the security HUD, but Aranclanos denied that request.CPTANT wrote:In the past the AI's medical overlay could see everyone's health. This was changed at one point to only allow the AI to see the health of people who turned on suit sensors.
The gameplay result is that as AI it is basically impossible to tell in most cases whether someone has been harmed, actually its impossible to distinguish between an unconscious and a dead person. For an entity who's default lawset completely revolves around preventing harm this is rather....impractical.
The AI is the only entity that can't examine things, so is the only one that doesn't have this information.
There have been several AI nerfs, but restoring the AI's ability to actually detects it's default primary objective seems only fair.
The medical HUD is an overlay for the suit sensors computer, and the security HUD was meant to be the same for the security records computer, but sadly I was unable to proceed with that.
I am sorry, I know from experience that you should not expect any improvements in the AI's ability to gather information. The best you can do is pretend to be the CMO and pester people about suit senosrs. Those who ignore you deserve to die and never be cloned anyway.
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/4525 if you wish to review the PR.
I still find that extremely basic information, such as whether or not someone is dead is information the AI should simply have. This is information literally every other mob gets through the examine function.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:19 am
- Byond Username: Gun Hog
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
I agree, and I would be more than happy to code an 'alive/dead' display for the medHUD on people without sensors, or just scrap the basic MedHUD in favor of the full one, but you have a silicon hate brigade (which has member(s) in the maintainership - name(s) will not be provided) which would prevent the addition of this feature.
These days, it is as hard to get an improvement for the AI approved as it is for Security.
These days, it is as hard to get an improvement for the AI approved as it is for Security.
- Haevacht
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:08 am
- Byond Username: Capital_H
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
Command is blue, yellow is supply tho.
1% of a coder, 2% of a spriter, 97% >:3c
Random name on Bagel, usually assistant.
Random name on Bagel, usually assistant.
- DemonFiren
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
- Byond Username: DemonFiren
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
I always thought Supply was brown.
And that green is closer to Service than Common.
And that green is closer to Service than Common.
- Wyzack
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:32 pm
- Byond Username: Wyzack
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
I thought the AI lost this by design, as the AI being a harmyelling big brother was by and large the source of all the hefty silicon nerfs that got dropped
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Caleb Robinson laughs.
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- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
I would hardly call actually knowing when someone is dead "perfect information"
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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- Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:07 pm
- Byond Username: TheNightingale
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
As an AI player, please don't give AI a full MedHUD. You know why? Because if someone doesn't have their sensors on, we can ignore them being harmed.
(thatwasajoke)
(thatwasajoke)
- Anonmare
- Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:59 pm
- Byond Username: Anonmare
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
Technically speaking, no fullHUD means you can practice reasonable doubt. Oh that assistant on the floor? The security guard said he's just sleeping. Hey why's that captain on the flo- Oh the nice man in the red hardsuit said he's just tired.
You could make fullHUDs upgrade disks makeable in robo or science if you really wanted a compromise.
You could make fullHUDs upgrade disks makeable in robo or science if you really wanted a compromise.
- Iatots
- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:17 pm
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- Github Username: Iatots
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
'Member when people meta'ed 2-3 brute damage on the crew monitor to find cultists? I 'member.
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- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:19 am
- Byond Username: Gun Hog
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
I would be more than happy to code this, if I had reasonable assurance that it would be merged.Anonmare wrote:Technically speaking, no fullHUD means you can practice reasonable doubt. Oh that assistant on the floor? The security guard said he's just sleeping. Hey why's that captain on the flo- Oh the nice man in the red hardsuit said he's just tired.
You could make fullHUDs upgrade disks makeable in robo or science if you really wanted a compromise.
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- Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:24 pm
- Byond Username: Cik
Re: Give the AI its medical overlay back
not that it ever really ended up helping considering "we should test the game without secborgs" turned into "this poll does not represent the majority of the playerbase! remove secborg!" became "this poll that says people want them back directly from the playerbase means the playerbase does not know what they are talking back! they are forbidden now!"Wyzack wrote:I thought the AI lost this by design, as the AI being a harmyelling big brother was by and large the source of all the hefty silicon nerfs that got dropped
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