/tg/Station 13

its lame that talking mimes aren't valid. they chose the job or got unlucky and rolled it- should've set your prefs to assistant buddy- so they should do the one required thing they have to do and keep their mouths shut.

How about making them take heavy brute damage each time they talk.

If I'm a captain or HoS and the mime speaks, I take him to surgery for an emergency tongue removal

Mimes are universally shitters who choose the role to greytide so they're kind of valid from the very start.

Luke Cox wrote:If I'm a captain or HoS and the mime speaks, I take him to surgery for an emergency tongue removal

This is acceptable but outright killing them is not. You shouldn't be removing people from the round for doing completely harmless things that don't actually infringe on your round at all.

"Is it valid?" is the traditional /tg/station13 question regarding absolutely anything, including mimes.

TheNightingale wrote:"Is it valid?" is the traditional /tg/station13 question regarding absolutely anything, including mimes.

Just routes back to the standard problem "I'm not having fun unless I'm removing somebody else from the game."

cedarbridge wrote:

TheNightingale wrote:"Is it valid?" is the traditional /tg/station13 question regarding absolutely anything, including mimes.

Just routes back to the standard problem "I'm not having fun unless I'm removing somebody else from the game."

How do we change this mentality?

Lumbermancer wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

TheNightingale wrote:"Is it valid?" is the traditional /tg/station13 question regarding absolutely anything, including mimes.

Just routes back to the standard problem "I'm not having fun unless I'm removing somebody else from the game."

How do we change this mentality?

Not to completely derail, but I believe one of the biggest issues with SS13 is that the core gameplay isn't all that fun. Most of the jobs are tedious, shallow, repetitive, and simply exist as time-gated/rng means to an end (genetics/RnD) or feel completely pointless (engineering, since the shuttle will get called the moment a breach appears anyway). It's not really enjoyable to do the jobs unless you're getting a reward, and even then you're just trying to power it out as quickly as possible so you can go validhunt or antagonize.

I think that the department jobs being shallow and not fully realized was fine when this was basically Mafia in Space, but now that this game has really come into its own as a simulator, the gameplay needs to be a lot more engaging, otherwise people will continue to pursue the most interesting part of the game: conflict and murder.

I've said this before in coderbus, and it's a hilarious thing to compare to SS13 - but Puzzle Pirates is an example of a game that made the mundane stupid shit you have to do actually pretty interesting. Granted, most of the minigames were variants on "match four", but the concept of having some sort of actual GAMEPLAY involved in the work you did made it far, far more entertaining. We should be looking at other games that use minigames/creative use of gameplay to make mundane tasks like research and whatnot more interesting. I think that once a round of extended is consistently fun, where everyone still has things to do and enjoys doing them, this game will be in a much better place.

How about civilian objectives?

Lumbermancer wrote:How about civilian objectives?

There was another thread about giving station objectives a better reward.

Though station objectives still feel rather wonky. I would like objectives that correlate more with just having a well run station, in which research/cargo/botany etc are done well.

CPTANT wrote:

Lumbermancer wrote:How about civilian objectives?

There was another thread about giving station objectives a better reward.

Though station objectives still feel rather wonky. I would like objectives that correlate more with just having a well run station, in which research/cargo/botany etc are done well.

The problem, in my opinion, is not the reward/s. The problem is the journey getting there. People complain about the rewards for station projects because they're not fun. They're busywork, like most of the jobs on the station. It's not fun building the DNA vault, so people want a reason to do it. Likewise, people get upset when the rewards for doing your job aren't high enough because the jobs aren't fun to do either. Most of the jobs are just variations on dice-rolling, and in the case of things like RnD where there is no random chance, it's just "how fast can I go through the motions to get to the end result". That's not good gameplay, and that's the reason so many players get bored and resort to finding any excuse to start fights and kill people. Despite the fact that stun-based combat is hot garbage, combat is probably the most engaging part of this game, as there are a lot of different things to juggle at once and a very high skillcap. On the other hand, take the medical system, where you can spend 30 seconds looking at the wiki and know just about as much as someone who mains MD, because the gameplay is horrendously shallow.

Remember when we had custom skin effect rewards for evacuating off the station?

I'm just saying this is my favorite and most hated policy discussion at the same time. I feel part of the reason everything focuses around the antags is, why wouldn't you? there is nothing dangerous on the station at all, and no reason to do your job besides set up the engine. departments have almost no reason to interact, the ones that do are mostly one sided. chef is useless, all the foods do the same thing, and even if you don't eat you live. if everyone went afk at roundstart, nobody would die until a varying amount of meteor storms hit them. outside antags sec wouldn't even imagine having to fend off space carp or anything, chef just makes fancy stuff, bartender just shoots people, botany just griefs people. I do agree that even extended should be fun, but as in a way that extended should have some threat. make space carp and other threats actually attack, make singular meteors just a common enough occurrence that it gives engineers work, make injuries more severe so medbay has a job, give the station supplies it can actually run out of to give cargo and mining a real job. the only problem with this concept I can see is that you'd need more maps for specific pops as skeleton crews would be far harder. what I'm saying is, make antags only half the danger.

also I'm being serious for once and not trying to be rude

Lumbermancer wrote:Remember when we had custom skin effect rewards for evacuating off the station?

I miss my beard.

The current design philosophy follows the rule that the more people a single person can kill the higher the paranoia.

Lumbermancer wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

TheNightingale wrote:"Is it valid?" is the traditional /tg/station13 question regarding absolutely anything, including mimes.

Just routes back to the standard problem "I'm not having fun unless I'm removing somebody else from the game."

How do we change this mentality?

It would add to the end of round spam but instead of being chastised for not finishing some cargo project that the captain never tells anyone about, why not bring out the old departmental stats?

"Robotics made X bots"
"X% of the station was intact"
"X% of the lights on the station were unbroken"
etc

That way the department has something to be proud of or mocked for slacking at after the round ends. Part of what makes a lot of the basic job stuff boring is that there's not even a post-round pat on the back for it. Engineering doesn't give a shit about fixing the station beyond "that's what you do I guess." Same with the other departments. A lot of the basic job stuff doesn't have any motivation to actually be done. Greentext is enough to motivate traitors in a lot of cases, why not give departmental mini-goals to science/cargo (have X cargo points/processed X crates/processed X value in crates)/service/etc that get a small part of the post round announcements. Its honestly as fleeting as a traitor greentext but we could use the old phrasing to mock departments that slacked off too. Right now, everyone in a department could just fuck off and play mutli-colored assistants at roundstart and nobody would know or care because jobs functionally mean nothing apart from their immediate requirements and that doing some of them requires some passing learning curve to do effectively/correctly. As it is now, the only people who really excell at their jobs within their departments are the people who are either roleplayers or self-starters who set their own goals. Why not set some basic goals for those departments and just make them visible?

cedarbridge wrote:

TheNightingale wrote:"Is it valid?" is the traditional /tg/station13 question regarding absolutely anything, including mimes.

Just routes back to the standard problem "I'm not having fun unless I'm removing somebody else from the game."

I think it's counterpart "my experience is ruined every time I am removed from a round" is actually the bigger mentality problem.

I know people shudder at the very mention of roleplay, but this ain't a deathmatch server either.

Lumbermancer wrote:I know people shudder at the very mention of roleplay, but this ain't a deathmatch server either.

This frankly.

is this a real policy thread, i thought it was a joke and i thought mods were going to delete or move it to ntr but lo and behold

it's not ok to pretend to be the lowest common denominator when it comes to common sense because you invite lowest common denominator discussion fucks sake guys

"If a person doesn't do their assigned job [of being silent in this case] can I valid them?" HMMMMMMM

as for the secondary discussion of "why valids?", I think a big part of it is the removal of RNG elements. If you want everything play out the exact same way everytime, then scratch your head when you see everyone wanting to do the only thing that's constantly randomizing between rounds [Antag fighting or Antagging], I'm not sure what to tell you.

it kinda was a joke but a while back talking mimes were valid and i really dont see why they shouldn't be. but the thread has spawned a lot of interesting discussion about the fact that there's really no motivation to do the onstation jobs and instead fuck off to validhunt.

CPTANT wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

TheNightingale wrote:"Is it valid?" is the traditional /tg/station13 question regarding absolutely anything, including mimes.

Just routes back to the standard problem "I'm not having fun unless I'm removing somebody else from the game."

I think it's counterpart "my experience is ruined every time I am removed from a round" is actually the bigger mentality problem.

What's wrong with being unhappy you were removed from the round? Everyone connects to play some SS13, it's not very fun to get murdered for shaky as fuck reasons (like the reason the thread was posted). There's nothing wrong with dying, see rule 10, but it's dying for stupid reasons where the person killing you doesn't give a fuck about the fact that you're also there to have fun that causes these debates

Qbopper wrote:

CPTANT wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

TheNightingale wrote:"Is it valid?" is the traditional /tg/station13 question regarding absolutely anything, including mimes.

Just routes back to the standard problem "I'm not having fun unless I'm removing somebody else from the game."

I think it's counterpart "my experience is ruined every time I am removed from a round" is actually the bigger mentality problem.

What's wrong with being unhappy you were removed from the round? Everyone connects to play some SS13, it's not very fun to get murdered for shaky as fuck reasons (like the reason the thread was posted). There's nothing wrong with dying, see rule 10, but it's dying for stupid reasons where the person killing you doesn't give a fuck about the fact that you're also there to have fun that causes these debates

To be fair taking up a gimmick role and not even doing the gimmick is unfun for everyone who wanted the job to do the gimmick.

>they take a spot from people who do the gimmick

when was the last time you ever saw a mime do any actual mime rather than built-in emotes

let alone use the theater for it

I attack talking mimes regardless of validity, its an abomination and needs to be stamped out.

bandit wrote:when was the last time you ever saw a mime do any actual mime rather than built-in emotes

Le Rouge does it all the time.

Lumbermancer wrote:

bandit wrote:when was the last time you ever saw a mime do any actual mime rather than built-in emotes

Le Rouge does it all the time.

I remember a clown/mime duo that acted out an entire criminal enterprise in the brig to explain to the HoS what the mime saw. 10/10

Frankly the fact that people are defending talking mimes is disgusting.

Purge the heretics!

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:To be fair taking up a gimmick role and not even doing the gimmick is unfun for everyone who wanted the job to do the gimmick.

I didn't mean mimes specifically, poor wording on my part - was just a general sentiment. I see what you mean though

bandit wrote:>they take a spot from people who do the gimmick

when was the last time you ever saw a mime do any actual mime rather than built-in emotes

let alone use the theater for it

> Minimalism on an OOC level
> truly multiple layers of artistry going on
> the clown doesn't understand

The custom emotes system is kinda messy at the moment which explains why mimes tend to default to PDA messages/writing on paper instead of trying to, pardon the pun, mime things out.

It'd be nice to see some mime-specific emotes implemented which are vague but could be interpreted various ways.

Arianya wrote:The custom emotes system is kinda messy at the moment which explains why mimes tend to default to PDA messages/writing on paper instead of trying to, pardon the pun, mime things out.

It'd be nice to see some mime-specific emotes implemented which are vague but could be interpreted various ways.

why don't you just use Me "

lmao

Arianya wrote:The custom emotes system is kinda messy at the moment which explains why mimes tend to default to PDA messages/writing on paper instead of trying to, pardon the pun, mime things out.

It'd be nice to see some mime-specific emotes implemented which are vague but could be interpreted various ways.

Like cobble said, I'm not sure I follow, is there an issue with using Me " ?

mime pdas shouldn't be able to message or start with a pen tbh

confused rock wrote:mime pdas shouldn't be able to message or start with a pen tbh

How to get no one to play mime 101

Qbopper wrote:

confused rock wrote:mime pdas shouldn't be able to message or start with a pen tbh

How to get no one to play mime 101

How to learn to be a good mime 101

Armhulen wrote:

Qbopper wrote:

confused rock wrote:mime pdas shouldn't be able to message or start with a pen tbh

How to get no one to play mime 101

How to learn to be a good mime 101

the two concepts can coexist, but let's be real, the majority of /tg/ players nowadays don't care about RP - I just had a conversation about how greentext was winning and the guy just decided to kill people because valentines made him unable to greentext

proper miming is funny as shit tho