/tg/Station 13

With the recent changes to mining gulag is a lot slower than what it used to be, to the point that I don't think 500 points are even close to 5 minutes in jail. So the simple solution is to either vastly lower the gulag points on space law or remove it from some punishments entierly.

This was fixed:
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/81971
Unless you think it's still too slow.

I got gulagged once since this PR merged, and I vastly overestimated how long it would take and ended up significantly overshooting my point target. I didn't keep track of the time but it definitely was <10 minutes for 800ish points?

It's PURE rng, if you get iron you're FUCKED if you get other shit it's fast

Fix gulag, I'm not a huge fan of the AFK-it-out brig, i'd rather players had to do something with that time. Also people not afk in brig tend to just incite the 'lets hang out outside sec because that's a fun hobby' crowd to start breaking into brig. Which sometimes just devolves into a riot where sec kill people validly and grey tide get banned for killing sec. Fun times.

Why /do/ the brig cells border the public area.

Against removing it entirely. Not without gross changes to the rest of the brigging system. Fix the scaling one way or another (code changes to ore / assigned targets in space law) and leave it be IMO.

I can make further code changes to the gulag if desired (making all materials very close in value does not sound like a terrible idea) however I am reluctant to do it right now because most of the posts in this thread seem to be based on before any change was made, and the one post by someone who has actually done it since says it is fine.

There is an RNG element but from my testing it should be much closer to 100 points = 1 minute at the moment.

I think this still needs tweaking, and this forum shouldnt be for code solutions though I’d love the pursuit of those. Removing the RNG would be a massive step up because at least from what I’ve observed its typically longer than 1 minute for 100 points.

iain0 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2024 3:55 pm Fix gulag, I'm not a huge fan of the AFK-it-out brig, i'd rather players had to do something with that time. Also people not afk in brig tend to just incite the 'lets hang out outside sec because that's a fun hobby' crowd to start breaking into brig. Which sometimes just devolves into a riot where sec kill people validly and grey tide get banned for killing sec. Fun times.

Why /do/ the brig cells border the public area.

Against removing it entirely. Not without gross changes to the rest of the brigging system. Fix the scaling one way or another (code changes to ore / assigned targets in space law) and leave it be IMO.

Mapping issue imo, I agree on removing it entierly being a bad idea though.

iain0 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2024 3:55 pm

Why /do/ the brig cells border the public area.

fascinating thing to consider: around the time of Box and the brig with its cells and windows facing out to a hall, it was still the case that security could be antags, cloning existed, and there were very many fewer self-evident antags (inherent abilities, shit they couldn't have just picked up off another bad guy - people are much better at the game today than back then.)

it was more important and it made sense to have the ability to see people handled publicly after getting arrested so you had some hedge against them disappearing to be killed and spaced - especially if even then they might still get cloned (with the press of one button) if they were in fact themselves the badman and rightly executed.

it was part of this whole level of messy drama and uncertainty you only got when people couldn't count on metaprotections for sec to generally be handling and not be the issue. tiding arrests was practically a civic duty at some points back then (and also, like people banging the doors with their shoes (an item with like 1 force) - it could be very funny to jump in on or watch)

and so: public cells

how much of this is people not knowing you can smash boulders for ore

iamgoofball wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:31 am how much of this is people not knowing you can smash boulders for ore

Probably at least a little of it, but if the way the gulag works has been completely redone, we should probably sit down and decide how that reflects into sec punishments going forward.

I think this is also partially a code issue, because I know at least 10% of question adminhelps I get are "how the fuck do I work the gulag machine" (I don't even know how lul) but we should at least talk about the matter in general.

After the points from materials were increased its not that bad to be honest as long as there are rocks to mine. The sand itself is already infinite as the storms fill out the holes (it does take extra time to wait for the storms tho).

Could add more things to do other than hard labor such as bit running / drone operating etc.

Vekter wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:38 am

iamgoofball wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:31 am how much of this is people not knowing you can smash boulders for ore

Probably at least a little of it, but if the way the gulag works has been completely redone, we should probably sit down and decide how that reflects into sec punishments going forward.

I think this is also partially a code issue, because I know at least 10% of question adminhelps I get are "how the fuck do I work the gulag machine" (I don't even know how lul) but we should at least talk about the matter in general.

i think I just need to code a gulag tutorial popup

iamgoofball wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:07 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:38 am

iamgoofball wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:31 am how much of this is people not knowing you can smash boulders for ore

Probably at least a little of it, but if the way the gulag works has been completely redone, we should probably sit down and decide how that reflects into sec punishments going forward.

I think this is also partially a code issue, because I know at least 10% of question adminhelps I get are "how the fuck do I work the gulag machine" (I don't even know how lul) but we should at least talk about the matter in general.

i think I just need to code a gulag tutorial popup

I think we just need to make it easier to use tbh.

Like, if it's so confusing that we need a tutorial just to use the console, I think we've failed at user experience.

We've tested this and I've spoken to jaq, asked him to raise iron slightly so you can tank through gulag even if you're unlucky.

Otherwise with good rng you can sweep it with bad rng it sucks. Hopefully the changes make it more consistent.

As this is something that interests me heavily (I main sec) I wil personally monitor this and open a new thread/adjust accordingly.