Appealing notes/retiring notes

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:29 am #205857

Notes are a black mark on a player record. A note, however petty is the difference between a ban and a warning.

As headmins previously said; a Ban can be appealed, however short, and the ban must be able to stand up when challenged.

Does this stand up for notes too?
It is so easy to slap notes onto someone, but what if those notes were made on thin reasoning that collapsed when challenged?

It isn't fair to attach a note into thin reasoning, which could later result in a lengthier ban because the admin banning saw a note, not knowing the context or reliability of the note.

And with that being said about notes; what are official times for when a note is retired and no longer relavent or usable by admins?

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:38 am #205865

Wanna knock out some of your deeds as if they never happened ay ol' shitter?

Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:39 am

Fuck no

We can trust our admins to tell for themselves what notes are relevant and what can be ignored, and anything outside of the last few months is usually ignored unless there's exceptional situations like someone coming back after a long break when they were a shit before they left. There's not a single person who would care enough to sit through the dozens of inevitable "was that REALLY worth a note?" appeals about little edge situations that on their own aren't worth taking action against, but are noted in case it becomes a habit. Notes aren't by themselves a bad thing and may be applied in some cases for technically okay situations that would warrant further action if it became a habit. Dealing with appeals for all those shitty borderline situations would be a ridiculous waste of time for all involved and would go against the entire purpose of notes.

If you feel like an admin has misinterpreted your notes to try and screw you over in a ban, say that in your appeal or make a complaint, no one will sit through the hours of mindless shit that would come with sorting through years of borderline situations that have no context attached to them

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:50 am #205871

>It's a "decipher loller's reasons" note

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:54 am #205873

NikNakFlak wrote:Wanna knock out some of your deeds as if they never happened ay ol' shitter?

I've got 7 relavent notes in 12 months.
all of which I had never actually instigated.

Shaps wrote:say that in your appeal or make a complaint

Wilco. Thanks for the response.

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:02 am #205875

The lollerderby thing is an ongoing issue that will reach a head probably within the next few days

Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:59 am

i think my notes are pretty much valid but there's one for ic in ooc from when i was bretty new and still not super sure 100% about how ooc was supposed to work
notes like that i feel would be nice to be able to "retire," but i understand not allowing that because of the whole "give an inch take a mile" thing

Post by **oranges** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:30 am #205899

saeg aren't those bans? what do they have to do with notes.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:52 am #205908

Bans leave identical notes

Not-Dorsidarf · Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:30 pm

Even though I have an objectively wrong note from Saegrimr I'm still thoroughly against appealing notes. They can be edited anyway, you know.

Alex Crimson · Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:55 pm

Appealing incorrect notes should be allowed, but thats all. "I have totally changed from the person i was so please remove this old note about griefing" That isnt gonna happen, ever.

Incomptinence · Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:36 am

I actually want more detail in my notes because I think I got one from StickyMayhem and it was accordingly done lazily, probably missing details.

Details in spoiler.

Spoiler:

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:35 am #206591

Notes are a player's record, the good and the bad. It tells us the sort of person we have an impression of and the history you've had. It'd be counterproductive to their purpose if they could be appealed plus we're not allowed to talk about another player's notes to an unrelated player at all which makes appealing them difficult.
Plus their our suspicions and observations of you if you've been shifty, borderline rulebreaking on a consistent basis or suspected of metagaming and it would be counterproductive to tell a person under suspicion that they're under suspicion.

yackemflam · Post by **yackemflam** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:15 pm #206605

But what about 2+ year old notes?
>Accidentally flooded toxins when a new player note
>Floods toxins again by mistake because reasons
>LEMME LOOK EHH?
>IT SAY HEAR DAT YU WENT AND FLOODED TOXINS BEFOAH
>WELL GUESS WAT M8
>You are banned from science jobs, reason: FLOODED FOOKIN SCIENCE M8
>You can appeal in the forums

-------------------------------------------------------

Now you will say
>Appeal on the forums the other admins will help you get unbanned because that's a stupid ass ban
>Get unbanned

Here I'll reply with
>But you can just delete the notes that are irrelevant and make ones likes 'Constantly was a complete shitter from 'DATE' to 'DATE'' as a replacement for maybe like a year. >Same thing for 'Was a goody good boy never got in trouble and help assistants all of the time.'
>People change

Post by **Archie700** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:42 pm #206607

Admins would want to know how you were a shit and how you were good, no matter how long.

Treat it as a permanant record.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:43 pm #206635

Archie700 wrote:Admins would want to know how you were a shit and how you were good, no matter how long.

that's ridiculous, i've got a note for killing SOS for greytiding during code red nukeops.

TechnoAlchemist · Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:30 pm

J_Madison wrote:
Archie700 wrote:Admins would want to know how you were a shit and how you were good, no matter how long.
that's ridiculous, i've got a note for killing SOS for greytiding during code red nukeops.

Yeah I gave you that note , valid

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:25 pm #206667

Without notes, admins have to rely on hearsay during ban appeals/requests, and everyone hates that, including the admins. Notes are at least a concrete record of exactly what happened when.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:54 am #206755

I said this once already, but notes should be view able by the person receiving the note.
It even happened once, before scaredy shat the bed.

The main two disagreements In my recollection with this process would be that it might tip off a metacom group, and that it might lead to salty bitches trying to appeal notes.

My answer for that was add in a SubtleNote verb that specifically disallows that, used for legitimate purposes And self policed by admins pointing out shitty subtlenotes in their sekret
clubhouse (No girls allowed)

and for the second complaint Hold your potentially shitty selves and potentially shitty coworkers accountable for potentially shitty noting. If you're gonna put so much stock in notes Then you should live with the scrutiny of it. legit notes will stay, and shitty undeserved ones will go.

It really kinda ties in with your backwards logic for closing the ban req forum, Hiding from your potential failings doesn't really resolve them, or a resolve the need for the product, now people just make admin complaints to get secondary feedback when they don't like rulings, and refusing note viewing to avoid note-appeals is just as retarded for the same reasons.

If your notes aren't bullshit you have nothing to fear. and if they are, why the hell are your notes bullshit?

Also, someone post my notes, I can't remember them all.

Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:36 pm

Falamazeer wrote:I said this once already, but notes should be view able by the person receiving the note.
It even happened once, before scaredy shat the bed.

actually it got removed because admins use notes to keep track of potential metagamers without letting them know right away, and there was no system in place for secret notes.

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:55 pm #206917

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Falamazeer wrote:I said this once already, but notes should be view able by the person receiving the note.
It even happened once, before scaredy shat the bed.
actually it got removed because admins use notes to keep track of potential metagamers without letting them know right away, and there was no system in place for secret notes.

Well we have watchlist system, which triggers everytime a guy there joins the server. And the public notes got disabled because the system is not working.

Screemonster · Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:31 pm

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Falamazeer wrote:I said this once already, but notes should be view able by the person receiving the note.
It even happened once, before scaredy shat the bed.
actually it got removed because admins use notes to keep track of potential metagamers without letting them know right away, and there was no system in place for secret notes.

Yeah, a mechanism is needed for double secret probation when it's shittery that they'd hide if they knew the admins were onto them

Bluespace · Post by **Bluespace** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:55 am #207014

someone link my notes lol.

onleavedontatme · Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:06 am

If they're minimizing/hiding their poor behavior to the point admins (and other players) don't notice it anymore for fear of being caught, hasn't that solved the problem though?

Slignerd · Post by **Slignerd** » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:10 am #207030

NikNakFlak wrote:Wanna knock out some of your deeds as if they never happened ay ol' shitter?

Sometimes it should be possible, yeah. Especially when you feel that admin judgment about said deed was wrong.

Slapping notes on players for minor infractions could easily be used as admin's way of screwing the players over in long term without any possibility of the player getting out of it. Make a note about something they did, omit all inconvenient details of everything that led to that in order to paint them in the worst light possible, and then watch as they get banned with "long history of notes" coming into play, with tons of distorted accounts of events they're unable to defend themselves from.

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:59 pm #207406

> Look in my notes
> InsaneHyena was attacked for no reason by a passerby nonantag in a blob round and put into crit with a toolbox. However, because he succumbed immediately, he technically was simply put into crit, not killed, so he's a banbaiter who adminhelped a good guy for no reason

What the fuck is this shit

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:39 pm #207431

the objections to open notes are easily solved like I said in a nutshell
add a subtlenote feature, and don't give shitty notes, or notes excluding details or circumstances IE shitty notes.

So... fix it.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:50 pm #207435

InsaneHyena wrote:> Look in my notes
> InsaneHyena was attacked for no reason by a passerby nonantag in a blob round and put into crit with a toolbox. However, because he succumbed immediately, he technically was simply put into crit, not killed, so he's a banbaiter who adminhelped a good guy for no reason

What the fuck is this shit

Full note is: Ahelped about being speared into crit, but had succumbed right after getting critted. "Did he spear you to death?" "Yes". When questioned about it, his answer: "I disagree about "didn't murder" part, but okay. Maybe he didn't. Which also would mean that two-shotting someone with a revolver and leaving them to bleed out is also not a murder." When presented with the possibility of being healed, replied: "Okay, fine. I'm guilty of not thinking that a shitter that critted me with a spear would heal me and succumbing." All in all, pretty shitty behavior. Watch out for banbaiting.

No mention of blob or toolbox in this note, but that note is also just weirdly worded and idk. I don't understand it much either.

Sometimes it should be possible, yeah. Especially when you feel that admin judgment about said deed was wrong.

Slapping notes on players for minor infractions could easily be used as admin's way of screwing the players over in long term without any possibility of the player getting out of it. Make a note about something they did, omit all inconvenient details of everything that led to that in order to paint them in the worst light possible, and then watch as they get banned with "long history of notes" coming into play, with tons of distorted accounts of events they're unable to defend themselves from.

You're killing me slig.
"Especially when you feel that admin judgment about said deed was wrong." Make an admin complaint, ban appeal and bring it up or whatever. If it's wrong, like actually wrong deemed from headmins, it'll get removed or what not. That's why you elect headmins, so they can rule over the other admins "note" or "ban" or whatever. Except that either you 1) Never did this or 2) The ban and/or note was deemed to be valid.

In your case, you joined supportbus and what not and talked some more and something something happened. Looks like you ended up only talking to atlanta_ned that entire time but I wasn't in the channel for the full thing maybe? So it looks like you never even did number 1.

Another thing is that if you seriously believe there is a giant admin conspiracy to screw players over with notes, I have bad news for you. Your tinfoil hat might be on a little too tightly. But in fact, you're right. Many different admins conspire daily and all of them add vague notes to totally completely non-dickish players in an effort to conspire to rule 0 them.
The real story here is that people with lots of notes are usually assholes. When is even the last time you saw someone get their shit ass long notes get referenced and they were a quality player?

Fuck.
Just. Fuck. Sligneris, give me a fucking break here.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:07 pm #207438

Niknak is out of touch. you realize players don't know they even need to argue bullshit notes because they can't read them right?

And it's not tinfoil hatting, some of the admin team in the past has actually been shitty enough to do that, it's not without merit to speculate that might happen, just look at saegrims screenshot, who the fuck knows what all those mean, or what circumstances they hold.

mitigating factors be damned, whoever got those notes looks like an asshole.

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:49 pm #207445

Oh yeah, he speared me instead of toolboxing, my bad.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:34 pm #207455

It is true that sometimes players dont know they got notes or what not, and this problem has been brought up before. A system of shown notes and hidden notes has also been brought, just no one has done it yet. You can't force people to code for a volunteer open source.

As far as the screenshot saegrimr showed, are you fucking retarded?

1) literally only lollerderby does this
2) a headmin POSTED IN THIS THREAD about handling said situation.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:11 pm #207471

NikNakFlak wrote:It is true that sometimes players dont know they got notes or what not, and this problem has been brought up before. A system of shown notes and hidden notes has also been brought, just no one has done it yet. You can't force people to code for a volunteer open source.

All fair points, which I agree with and have also made.

NikNakFlak wrote:As far as the screenshot saegrimr showed, are you fucking retarded?

1) literally only lollerderby does this
2) a headmin POSTED IN THIS THREAD about handling said situation.

Not sure how this makes me retarded, it's an example of the point I was making, bad note bans can happen, have happened before, and potentially could happen again. Just because it's been resolved doesn't mean it didn't happen, and that it couldn't continue to happen in the future from an alternate source, Lollerderby didn't invent bad notes. Jon Riker (Mario something) had a big drama thing with many of his notes his first go around if I recall correctly. either way, it's not my first rodeo and I know this has happened before.

Basically, what I already said, it's not exactly a tinfoil hat issue with bad noting and speaking as if it is a tinfoil hat issue is badwrong, and you should feel badwrong.

Do I need to sprits water in your face, or hold your nose in your comment so you know not to piss on the forums you dirty mutant corgi?

Post by **oranges** » Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:47 pm #207498

yes friend, continue to insult the admins, it will really make them want to see your point of view in a good light.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:58 pm #207499

oranges wrote:yes friend, continue to insult the admins, it will really make them want to see your point of view in a good light.

Me?

Shit, wasn't trying to spit in anyones eye here, we have the best admin team in tgstation history right now and here in the flesh. Really and honestly! No sarcasm at all, and no sarcasm at all in 'no sarcasm at all'

I migrated as a 'pubbie' from goon and routinely had to work around a picture of a gaping asshole goatsie or just quit playing until a real internet community formed, so my criticism of what 'could be' comes from a place of love, you guys are great, my criticism is just how I feel you could be greater.

No matter the hyperbole, I do like you guys, and I do enjoy the game. Hugs and kisses all around. EDIT: the comment 'hugs and kisses' is not sarcasm or satire, we're living in a golden age on this server. period. double period. Not being sarcastic.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:19 am #207501

"oh god two admins did bad notes, ITS NOT A CONSPIRACY BUT IT HAPPENED"
yep, but two admins who did it and got in trouble (well loller was handled by headmins or maybe he wasn't and who knows about mario, that was in the age of no admin standards), does not make it a "big problem"
It's like you are saying there is a problem when the problem is small and gets handled, IE: "It's happened", what the fuck are you complaining about?
You've always been a bit of a forum bitch and often bring up the "mutant corgi" thing because you get ass blasted. Either way, fuck you and your bad opinions. Splerg all you want in a forum thread, but unless someone codes the system for different notes, nothing is going to change, and personally it doesn't make you any less of a cunt either.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:29 am #207503

NikNakFlak wrote:"oh god two admins did bad notes, ITS NOT A CONSPIRACY BUT IT HAPPENED"
yep, but two admins who did it and got in trouble (well loller was handled by headmins or maybe he wasn't and who knows about mario, that was in the age of no admin standards), does not make it a "big problem"
It's like you are saying there is a problem when the problem is small and gets handled, IE: "It's happened", what the fuck are you complaining about?
You've always been a bit of a forum bitch and often bring up the "mutant corgi" thing because you get ass blasted. Either way, fuck you and your bad opinions. Splerg all you want in a forum thread, but unless someone codes the system for different notes, nothing is going to change, and personally it doesn't make you any less of a cunt either.

You are a bad person.

You are an example of admins not being held to the higher example today because you have gotten away with your particular brand of bullshit thus far. I do not care for how you talk to me, And that aside, you come accross as an offended SJW tumblr queen in everything you do or say

and Though I still to this day leave an open door for you when you are not spouting bullshit, I still recognise you for what you are, just some asshole who ended up an important figure because you were the only person applying for the job.

You are a relic from the silver age who served a purpose of weeding out ban evaders who had to be weeded out manualy. Now that isn't the case, and your shittyness will only be tolerated as long as the gratitude remains. you are on a timer, and the server as a whole will be better off once that timer has reached zero.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:32 am #207504

That didn't even refute anything about retiring notes, that's just more of your butt baby salt.
0/10 I underestimated your salt levels you lil' forum warrior you.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:41 am #207508

NikNakFlak wrote:That didn't even refute anything about retiring notes, that's just more of your butt baby salt.
0/10 I underestimated your salt levels you lil' forum warrior you.

I already refuted those points, but nopr. Nope, done with you being a butt-baby.
Anyone with eyes can read. I have low to medium salt, and I'm happy with history remembering me as the voice of reason while you're just some corgi who shoulda just fucked off.

Quit while your ahead, I'm done with this thread, and I'm done with you, I'll do with you what I've done with every teenage autistic authoritarian forum moderator and wait until enough other people care to shame you into either quiting or changing. Buh-bye.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:43 am #207509

>voice of reason.
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
holy shit oh my god
Do forum warriors actually believe this?

TheNightingale · Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:21 am

You're both bad people who need to go back to kindergarten and learn the principles of basic human interaction. There, argument solved.

onleavedontatme · Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:49 am

MSO can we automatically redirect players who click on the Policy forum to the shed.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:20 am #207556

Kor wrote:MSO can we automatically redirect players who click on the Policy forum to the shed.

Sure, throw it with the for-no-raisens board, because getting rid of the discussion itself totally eliminated the need for it last time.

better yet, why have a forum at all, it just leads to disputes and fallacies, If it can't be solved in a single ahelp it's beyond our paygrade as a 2d toolbox skull simulator.

Even better yet, let's keep the forum, but refuse to look deeper into anything that's written in it, and instead disparage every 350th post for being worthless. despite your direct ability to resolve it.

This time I'm actually being sarcastic.

onleavedontatme · Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:19 am

You and Niknak calling each other names is very valuable feedback and discussion.

TechnoAlchemist · Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:28 am

pee pee poo poo

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:40 am #207619

Falamazeer wrote:If it can't be solved in a single ahelp it's beyond our paygrade as a 2d toolbox skull simulator

sounds like privatisation of administration and a problem in motivation. Personally, I see a pattern with certain admins that avoid taking any action (unless absolutely necessary) which results in a majority of the bans from a minority of admins.

I'd make more policy discussions and scrutinise admins more if it wasn't for the fact I'd be stepping closer to a rule 0 every time. Though it'll inevitably happen within the next 4 months or the next headmin election from what I've been informed.

Notes are really a stealthy way for admins to slowly ban a player. Breath down anyone's neck hard enough and they'll rack up pretty amounts of notes. Reason I feedback on staff often is because I often ask for notes, especially after a round which I got the gestapo treatment by an admin.

Slowly but surely I've racked up enough notes to dictate that I'm a "over escalating player who abuses authority as security" when the scope of each note doesn't go into depth on what had occurred. Admins get half a story.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:47 pm #207649

Some notes aren't blatant bullshit or a nasty conspiracy, but could be worded more fairly to include all the details, I found old post your notes thread which has some of my old notes in it that gives a good example of what I mean. https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... tes#p63101

~quartzcrystal19-Mar-2013 | Flooded atmos with plasma because he was bored.

This makes me look like an asshole.. Unless you read it Juuuuust right.
See I didn't flood the station with plasma, I flooded ATMOS itself with plasma, as in the physical location with all the pipes, and I didn't do it because I was bored, I did it because I'm retarded.

Was trying to build a bomb mix burn site from scratch to see if it could be done. (It can, but it can also go horribly wrong) But the note just looks like I unleashed holy hell on the station because 'meh'

Keep in mind I'm not appealing the note, or arguing it shouldn't exist, But it doesn't really tell much of a story does it? And I didn't even know it was applied for a year and nine months.

Hell, take a tour in that thread and you'll see a lot of people unhappy with their notes being only partially correct leaving out key details that make the situation a lot more understandable.

Also from feb 2015

MrStonedOne wrote:Never fear, I am working on a revamp of the note system to make it shared between the two servers (database and everything) and it will allow admins to mark individual notes as private/public so that we can publicise most (if not all) the notes, but not the 'we think they are metagaming/metacomming and this is how we know' notes that would just lead to players hiding it better.

This would have pretty much solved all problems ever. dunnow why it wasn't done.

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:09 pm #207668

I'd make more policy discussions and scrutinise admins more if it wasn't for the fact I'd be stepping closer to a rule 0 every time. Though it'll inevitably happen within the next 4 months or the next headmin election from what I've been informed.

This is the dumbest thing I've read all day, have fun trailblazing and making a bunch of precedents that will inevitably be misinterpreted in the future and twisted and turned against you, which leads to more screaming and crying about what your rules actually mean (not to mention how you're restricting how people are allowed to play)

Notes are really a stealthy way for admins to slowly ban a player. Breath down anyone's neck hard enough and they'll rack up pretty amounts of notes. Reason I feedback on staff often is because I often ask for notes, especially after a round which I got the gestapo treatment by an admin.

Good thing there's already oversight and we review the notes in question in your ban appeal if they are deemed relevant

You people expect a frankly ridiculous amount of bureaucracy and documentation for a video game where the current notes system has been working absolutely fine for years now

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:23 pm #207680

There's not a lot of transparency, Shaps.

Whilst I've had positive experiences with a majority of staff, it's easier to burn bridges than to build them.

This is better discussed in a seperate topic. I'll keep this short, but it seems (from my perspective) those that stand up or put up resistance don't last forever.

I'm glad to hear that you'll be extra discrepant on reviewing notes in future.

It's just a game at the end of the day and the players are overreacting, but at the source of the problem I'd say is a small groups of admins that have caused drama (accidental or purposeful) and it has reflected in overall distrust and lack of transparency on what goes on exactly.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:41 pm #207685

Shaps wrote:current notes system has been working absolutely fine for years now

But it hasn't.
It's just not a widespread issue because people don't know it's a widespread issue.
That's kinda the point here, which is why that should be fixed, and we can clean house for unfairly skewed one-liners, which are then used as a factor for further noting and banning.

It doesn't have to be a clusterfuck drama-fest, just course correct, problem solved.

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:04 pm #207690

I'm glad to hear that you'll be extra discrepant on reviewing notes in future.

We won't be, we will be putting the same due diligence we have always put into them

But it hasn't.
It's just not a widespread issue because people don't know it's a widespread issue.

This is where I, someone who has actually worked in the administration extensively and oversee it, disagree with you. Adding another layer of work for admins to sort through with notes that can easily be circumvented by just asking an admin for your notes anyway, not to mention sorting through the fuckhuge layer of notes already out there, is not worth it.

Our admins are already thoroughly monitored by basically every other admin, banlogs are scoured daily, appeals are widely circulated and almost always seen by at least one headmin, there are plenty of checks to make sure that the evil madmin you think stalks you at night won't suddenly permaban you after giving you 50 notes that say "this guy is shit"