/tg/Station 13

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35717

I don't really know how we can come to the conclusion that he spawned the colossus to grief the shuttle from logs he said mid-way through the fight.

Apparently screaming nukies means they spawned a colossus to hurt the station on purpose.

I say the players word is worth way more than saying nukies. Did the admin ask? I assume they straight up did not believe them if they did... Which ain't good.

Frankly, boss vents shouldn't even spawn on the top layer... that's just asking for the station to be griefed, intentional or not.
Furthermore, how is "OH FUCK NUKIES" at all reason to believe they did it to GRIEF the shuttle? Even going off of just that alone, that sounds like a miner attempting to help the station to me at least.

Their account sounds about right, given the abundance of evidence they've provided; in my experience with them, as well, I'd never see the sort of shitter behavior that's being portrayed by the ban from them. Rough times in minerville, I suspect we'll see a codenut if this sorta thing happens again. Aiden's right, too— it's really rough that fauna vents spawn on the top layer AT ALL.

Ayy, i was the one who gave that image of the humpback shuttle for them to use in the nut
The admin just seems to not really believe their word here. Yes, they have 600 Shaft miner hours, 2.5k total hours, but it does seem like an honest mistake

Also, maybe bosses shouldn't spawn in the top layer of icebox? Just sayin'

NOOOOO YOU PLAYED A THOUSAND HOURS YOU HAVE TO BE A PERFECT PLAYER

Head scratching ban ngl, it feels like the reach to link his actions to grief is quite far.

Play perfect get banned for powergaming

Play imperfect get banned for griefing

Chose wisely

I do appreciate your ungentle yet headstrong insertion of nut in the title.

Also I heard of essayposting and here comes anne with multiple essays on the same post.

This doesn't sit right with me either.

I could totally see myself monkeybraining "me wanna fight boss" and spawning it, without even considering the fact that it could damage the station or shuttle. The only reason I can guarantee that I won't do it now is because I saw this ban and I know what can happen.

Am I just an idiot? Perhaps. But if he is getting indited on his high shaft miner hours, the fact that ore vents are brand new and icebox is only 1/6 of all maps (so he's exceedingly unlikely to have experienced this directly) should be a defense to some of that, right?

I mean, did he know that vent would spawn a colossus?

conrad wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:39 pm I do appreciate your ungentle yet headstrong insertion of nut in the title.

Also I heard of essayposting and here comes anne with multiple essays on the same post.

I consulted several nut experts before posting. All of them advised me that the word nut had to be in the title of a good nut. Though this one feels a bit forced. Personally a good nut title has a funny reference to the content of the ban appeal itself, but alas I couldn’t find any good jokes.

As for the content of the ban, I feel like the .50 cal turrets on the infiltrator don’t always zap you the second you get in range. Colossus projectiles tend to slow down the game a lot too, which would inhibit the time on target for the turrets. Also, I just believe the player when they say it was an honest mistake. This dude is pretty well known as a chill person on manny.

Mrp admins when players act on incomplete information :0

this whole ban + note is completely stupid

I personally don't think the note itself is wrong. You ass is on the line if you bring megafauna to the station as a non-antag, full stop. The ban itself wasn't crazy since the dude left mid-ahelp and the course of action taken is that you act on your own judgement, and admin judgement tends to err on the side of grief when someone leaves mid ahelp. This sort of thing is what appeals are for.

The ban was reduced to a note. The purpose of the note is to alert future admins that the player is now aware of bringing megafauna into the station after having done so once. It only really matters if they do that again.

I fail to see where Anne made a mistake here besides making me read over ten fucking paragraphs to get the full picture of their intent.

conrad wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:41 pm I personally don't think the note itself is wrong. You ass is on the line if you bring megafauna to the station as a non-antag, full stop. The ban itself wasn't crazy since the dude left mid-ahelp and the course of action taken is that you act on your own judgement, and admin judgement tends to err on the side of grief when someone leaves mid ahelp. This sort of thing is what appeals are for.

The ban was reduced to a note. The purpose of the note is to alert future admins that the player is now aware of bringing megafauna into the station after having done so once. It only really matters if they do that again.

My only eh about it is that there's a vast difference between managing to get a megafauna up via the mining shuttle vs. the megafauna being on the station's z-level.

The note is pretty dumb because of the reasons stated in the fucking walls of text where it mentions that even if the shuttle WASN'T there, if Mines had spawned the colossus it would have still hit the station.

what's the lizard supposed to do, not do that vent because he's gonna get banned/noted over a dumb mining issue? there needs to be some level of understanding that this wasn't him kiting the megafauna to the station it's just quite literally impossible to do that vent without it breaking something. he'd said himself and backed up with evidence that he wasn't moving the mob closer to the station and was in fact moving as far away from the station as he could.

Jeb wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:57 pm The note is pretty dumb because of the reasons stated in the fucking walls of text where it mentions that even if the shuttle WASN'T there, if Mines had spawned the colossus it would have still hit the station.

what's the lizard supposed to do, not do that vent because he's gonna get banned/noted over a dumb mining issue? there needs to be some level of understanding that this wasn't him kiting the megafauna to the station it's just quite literally impossible to do that vent without it breaking something. he'd said himself and backed up with evidence that he wasn't moving the mob closer to the station and was in fact moving as far away from the station as he could.

I completely agree tbh

thank you arcmining for spawning bosses (???????) when people are trying to get valuable ores

This note should be applied to Arc tbqh

Jeb wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:57 pm The note is pretty dumb because of the reasons stated in the fucking walls of text where it mentions that even if the shuttle WASN'T there, if Mines had spawned the colossus it would have still hit the station.

what's the lizard supposed to do, not do that vent because he's gonna get banned/noted over a dumb mining issue? there needs to be some level of understanding that this wasn't him kiting the megafauna to the station it's just quite literally impossible to do that vent without it breaking something. he'd said himself and backed up with evidence that he wasn't moving the mob closer to the station and was in fact moving as far away from the station as he could.

That's actually a good point. From the point of view of the vent spawning bosses and being so close to the station it doesn't make sense that the player is punished for spawning a boss. Or even noted, for the "notes aren't punishment" crowd, since if this is correct that's apparently an intented game feature.

Going to break the unspoken rule of not posting in your own nut to say

conrad wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:41 pm The ban itself wasn't crazy since the dude left mid-ahelp and the course of action taken is that you act on your own judgement, and admin judgement tends to err on the side of grief when someone leaves mid ahelp.

I was under the impression the ahelp was already over. They bwoinked me, I responded, they said what I did wrong and that they'd give me a note, and then the round ended. There was no round-end delay so I figured that was that and took a short break.

gameaddict07 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:46 pm Going to break the unspoken rule of not posting in your own nut to say

NOOOOO THE CUUURSE THE CUURUAURUURUSEEEEEEEE

I'm surprised there are even vents on floor 1 tbh let alone boss ones, given that wasn't really a place worth mining before arcmining
would not be surprised if it was unintended, I know Icebox has had some messed up ore generation

It depends on how the ore vent spawns work, they might not even be considered ore.

For example icebox can have ruins and geysers spawn on the top z level as well.

This should be blamed as a bug or an unintentional side effect, you should always be encouraged to use the tools/do your job within your designated area, for miners their designated place to do arc mining is at the ore vents and they cant relocate them.

This is similar to banning engineers for bombing xenobio on delta station because they failed to keep their sm under control and the explosion killed off scientists due to a mapping error (why is the sm literally bud up against sci now??)

Or a scientist messing up in toxins and blowing up chemistry because for some reason chemistry is literally right up against toxins now...


That ore vent could be a badly mapped toxins or sm room thats right up against evac and I doubt anyone trying and failing to do their job as those roles would get punished just because the map made evac a collateral of their failure.

Can we note arc for this, why are bosses spawning on top floor

Admin's judgements when it comes to notes are infallible unless they contain severe factual errors.

They have no bearing on intent, just that it happened and that the person who did it should be now considered as having a record for doing so.

Or maybe we can just talk it out instead of making rapsheets for the dumbest shit that the person probably will not repeat anyways after the talk they had with an admin.

BonChoi wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:47 pm Admin's judgements when it comes to notes are infallible unless they contain severe factual errors.

They have no bearing on intent, just that it happened and that the person who did it should be now considered as having a record for doing so.

Or maybe we can just talk it out instead of making rapsheets for the dumbest shit that the person probably will not repeat anyways after the talk they had with an admin.

A while ago I noted Trexter for unintendedly causing a bug, and agreed to lift the note because on one side it was unanimously agreed upon that this was unintended behaviour (I don't know if Arcane intended bosses to spawn on the station's Z level), and because an issue report was raised by Trexter as soon as the round was over.

I stand by that note and would not have removed it if the conditions were different. The bug's exploit was still present, the player was made aware after doing it once and the purpose is that, if they do it again, then it becomes a punishment. The bug was corrected I think the day after (or no more than a week after) the round where Trexter was an explosive piñata.

I don't fully side with the "notes aren't punishment" crowd 'cos that's a dumb fucking assertion (noting effectively thins the ice the player is on), but at the same time I firmly believe that notes are, first and foremost, tools. They serve a purpose and don't just exist 'cos it's an easy way to punish a player without banning them that's hard to remove. The function is to alert future admins that this player did a dumb thing unwittingly, without the intention to grief. Something that's ban worthy but full of nuance (admins' favourite word). It's just naughty behaviour record keeping.

Which is exactly what Anne did when reducing the ban.

Does that mean every player can exploit a bug once, get noted for it and go scott free? I wouldn't wager that, that's a tough bet. You'll probably get noted for it, if not banned. There's no "one size fits all" solution for analyzing if something is grief, everything is case by case, the admin team is way too big to have a completely uniform opinion and, like I said before, this is what appeals are for.

Paradise station doesn't do notes. They just talk to you about what you did wrong and it's fine we don't need fuckin dossiers on players

EmpressMaia wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 3:01 pm Paradise station doesn't do notes. They just talk to you about what you did wrong and it's fine we don't need fuckin dossiers on players

however, paradise station sucks incredible ass

What on earth is that updated note? That's a terrible note, and it isnt even much more accurate than the first terrible inaccurate note, while being massively more rude.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 5:02 pm What on earth is that updated note? That's a terrible note, and it isnt even much more accurate than the first terrible inaccurate note, while being massively more rude.

Someone with your experience should know better and should act more responsibly.

this bit just isnt needed at all

also- while i have you people here: I havent played arcmining yet, but the constant blowing up and insane screenshake that comes from miners harvesting geysers spawning on l1 on icebox absolutely infuriates me

icebox once again continues to be the cause of all suffering for miners

dendydoom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 4:28 pm icebox once again continues to be the cause of all suffering for miners

Remember when box was in space? And it was in the same lineup as pubby?

Pepperidge Conrad remembers

I also like that the shaft miner's hours are taken into account in the appeal thread.

Those hours cant have anything to do with the spawning of the megafauna from the ore vent since thats a new feature

So basically the arguement here is "you have this many hours and you lost to a megafauna you washed up noob" which is really funny to me since I recently watched Tyler1 play league and those types of arguements happen all the time.

Yeah I'm not happy with the result of this one. He should ask for a headmin review here because it is very much not fair for him.

He didn't even bring it onto the z level, it was on that z level on the first place.

Also an admin acting as if the player is lying is VERY insulting to a person. It can really fuck up a person's day when they are saying what they genuinely believe is true.

Constellado wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:28 am
Also an admin acting as if the player is lying is VERY insulting to a person. It can really fuck up a person's day when they are saying what they genuinely believe is true.

To be fair, it's a kind of fatigue because it's so common for people to lie in ahelps you get used to it being malicious because often it is.
It gets pretty tiring going through the logs for the 6th time in an hour just to find out a player lied again.
It's part of the job but I can see why they go straight into accusations of lying.

I always try to mentally place myself of who I'm talking to and see what they might have experienced in the situation and balance that against the rules and common sense.
I can understand that a player might think they're getting strangled if they're focusing on the main screen in chaos.

Dax Dupont wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:48 am

Constellado wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:28 am
Also an admin acting as if the player is lying is VERY insulting to a person. It can really fuck up a person's day when they are saying what they genuinely believe is true.

To be fair, it's a kind of fatigue because it's so common for people to lie in ahelps you get used to it being malicious because often it is.
It gets pretty tiring going through the logs for the 6th time in an hour just to find out a player lied again.
It's part of the job but I can see why they go straight into accusations of lying.

I always try to mentally place myself of who I'm talking to and see what they might have experienced in the situation and balance that against the rules and common sense.
I can understand that a player might think they're getting strangled if they're focusing on the main screen in chaos.

Oh this is for the ore vent peanut but yeah it applies on that one too I guess.

Its a shame players lie so much, shouldn't be happening. I'd expect once in a while ahelps to have actual lies that are on purpose

Constellado wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 2:00 am

Dax Dupont wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:48 am

Constellado wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:28 am
Also an admin acting as if the player is lying is VERY insulting to a person. It can really fuck up a person's day when they are saying what they genuinely believe is true.

To be fair, it's a kind of fatigue because it's so common for people to lie in ahelps you get used to it being malicious because often it is.
It gets pretty tiring going through the logs for the 6th time in an hour just to find out a player lied again.
It's part of the job but I can see why they go straight into accusations of lying.

I always try to mentally place myself of who I'm talking to and see what they might have experienced in the situation and balance that against the rules and common sense.
I can understand that a player might think they're getting strangled if they're focusing on the main screen in chaos.

Oh this is for the ore vent peanut but yeah it applies on that one too I guess.

Its a shame players lie so much, shouldn't be happening. I'd expect once in a while ahelps to have actual lies that are on purpose

Oh rip wrong thread indeed but yes.

technokek wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:17 pm Play perfect get banned for powergaming

Play imperfect get banned for griefing

Chose wisely

dont' play at all, can't get banned

oranges wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:02 am

technokek wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:17 pm Play perfect get banned for powergaming

Play imperfect get banned for griefing

Chose wisely

dont' play at all, can't get banned

why is your profile picture still in christmas mode

oranges wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:02 am

technokek wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:17 pm Play perfect get banned for powergaming

Play imperfect get banned for griefing

Chose wisely

dont' play at all, can't get banned

don't play at all, get banned from the player's club automatically.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:32 pm

oranges wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:02 am

technokek wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:17 pm Play perfect get banned for powergaming

Play imperfect get banned for griefing

Chose wisely

dont' play at all, can't get banned

don't play at all, get banned from the player's club automatically.

become an admin or maintainer before you stop playing

the only real reason to get adminned is so that you can spend even longer sitting staring at the lobby screen trying to will yourself to play because you don't get afk booted

dendydoom wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:41 pm the only real reason to get adminned is so that you can spend even longer sitting staring at the lobby screen trying to will yourself to play because you don't get afk booted

Only to then accidentally click observe rather than join game and immediately getting hit with a bwoink.

Another day another admin acting in bad faith.
do they have quota to reach or just bone to pick with this guy?

Featherfield wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:34 am Another day another admin acting in bad faith.
do they have quota to reach or just bone to pick with this guy?

Woah buddy you can't say that