/tg/Station 13

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talkin' like everyone knows your every move is definitely weird, acting like you're never gonna be able to help the cult as a roundstart cultist but will be able to as a fucking ASIMOV LAWED BORG is even weirder, but the weirdest of all is choosing to borg yourself instead of suicide, WHO WILLINGLY WANTS TO BE A CYBORG!!!!!!

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 6:04 am

Ezel wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 6:03 am last time i was cultist i printed 150 plasteel in the middle of cargo autolathe and nobody batted an eye

i think it was mainly bad with statics like paris

Ahelp they get roasted, metastation has over 180+ plasma in maint generators alone which is alot of plasteel if you get some metal

Ezel wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 6:05 am

Ahelp they get roasted, metastation has over 180+ plasma in maint generators alone which is alot of plasteel if you get some metal

ya but i think pylons use LOS so if you were able to go around building glass wall girders and poop out pylons as engie borg it might have been really fucking effective since people would have to break the glass wall to break the pylon

They probably could have law 2'd to stop placing them but getting them down in the first place would definitely have been sanctioend by policy since the slow down atmos changes and you know how i like to make the station into a big air conditioner with thermo machines and heat exchangers to prevent shitmos.


making glass walls is also really good for engie borgs since they come with a shit ton of metal and glass

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:47 am i dont want the ban reduced i want to stop feeling bad and wrong, last time i was like this was over the espear seccie ban and i stayed up till like 9 am talking on forums cause i couldnt sleep.

im afraid in this case that you are in fact wrong so the only way to stop feeling bad about it is probably to internalise that you were wrong and nobody agrees that this was a good or correct course of action
there's no amount of arguing you can do in this peanut which will make people validate your choices because they werent good or valid choices and nobody wants you to do them again

Reading this peanut gave me impression moocow would rather play this game in single player: no shitmos, can build their maint bases, no one will arrest them over breaking into Eva and he doesn't talk to people anyways.

Its only ok if he takes the plasteel
if anyone else do it theyre an antag because they dont have a maint base gimmick like them

spookuni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:28 am

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:10 am

spookuni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:08 am

Swap to asimov borg should be considered a suicide attack against large scale pve elements (shitmos) then is the point im trying to make. Conversion antagonists suffer against PVE. Engie borgs hard counter PVE and are the best thing to be when dealing with it (atleast if you consider PVE to just be environment and not nonsentient mobs which engie borgs arnt as great at but they are decent)

That... is not how that works. At all.

The foundation of a suicidal action is that you, the player, are not playing the video game afterwards. If you are still playing the video game after you do the thing it was not suicidal.

When you die no matter what you are turned into a ghost which is inherently antagonistic towards everyone and while its unlikely for you to be able to manifest those ill intentions into actions the possibility is still there

Ezel wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:05 am Its only ok if he takes the plasteel
if anyone else do it theyre an antag because they dont have a maint base gimmick like them

The only two times that happened paris was sec and paris told me to announce it the second time and called me a cutie for doing it the first time

MooCow you know Coroner is one of the easiest jobs on the station, right? Literally your only actual expectation is to autopsy one human and one non-human, the surgery for which is maybe three steps?

Coroner job doesnt have anything that helps cult on the scale that i try to play at, doing autopsies actually hurts cult since it helps the station progress towards better healing which is a major advantage cult has over crew with pylons and i didnt realize it at first when i did the first one


I actually think i should be banned for doing that first autopsy it was stupid

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:45 am

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:43 am

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:41 am Was me dealing 15-30 burn damage to a single nonhuman cultist worth saving the cult from collective hundreds of points of damage from atmos being fixed and resources being brought to them to make into pylons.

Yes, because in this scenario you attacked your own team after intentionally placing yourself in a position where you would have no choice but to attack your own team[/b][/i].

So you believe you cant give your team a better chance to summon narsie (the end goal) because youre likely to cause an arbitrary number of damage to teammates.


Very similar to those situations where i firelock non antags on accident once or twice a few times when im firelocking a nukie.

Firelocking your battle buddy assistant when you are desperately trying to do something to not die to the esword nukie is not similar at all. It would be similar if you were a nukeop who became a crewmember while knowing that you would have to stop your teammates from killing the captain disk / arming the nuke and doing it to “help”

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 2:53 pm
Firelocking your battle buddy assistant when you are desperately trying to do something to not die to the esword nukie is not similar at all. It would be similar if you were a nukeop who became a crewmember while knowing that you would have to stop your teammates from killing the captain disk / arming the nuke and doing it to “help”

Again the point being made is the action and consequences were locked in at the same time no matter how delayed the consequences are


Cult tends to die to atmos
I be engie borg to counter atmos

>Cult had halos


>Cult was dieing to atmos


>i am the best thing for fixing atmos now and i have laws that obligate me to pursue that objective

It was one singular action with delayed consequences that could have been round altering in a beneficial way for my team in the event i had more time to fix atmos without having to stop to type every 30 seconds


Along with theoretical implications that i could spam pylons which vasty improves cults chance of winning

The station being bombed after i made the arguement to the admin that silicons are good for ensuring a safe environment was not god decending from the heavens to back me up and give me a perfect situation where engie borg was optimal for cult


It was the norm

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 3:04 pm

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 2:53 pm
Firelocking your battle buddy assistant when you are desperately trying to do something to not die to the esword nukie is not similar at all. It would be similar if you were a nukeop who became a crewmember while knowing that you would have to stop your teammates from killing the captain disk / arming the nuke and doing it to “help”

Again the point being made is the action and consequences were locked in at the same time no matter how delayed the consequences are


Cult tends to die to atmos
I be engie borg to counter atmos

>Cult had halos


>Cult was dieing to atmos


>i am the best thing for fixing atmos now and i have laws that obligate me to pursue that objective

It was one singular action with delayed consequences that could have been round altering in a beneficial way for my team in the event i had more time to fix atmos without having to stop to type every 30 seconds


Along with theoretical implications that i could spam pylons which vasty improves cults chance of winning

Ok come on that’s baloney. Cult doesn’t “tend to die to atmos” because they base in maint. Also when they are the primary threat nobody ever is gonna say “I have just the thing!” While sprinting towards atmospherics. Also also it isn’t hard for any cultist to safeguard against a flood if they really are worried and this can be done before cult is revealed and without outing you guys (and even if you don’t it’s not hard to get into atmos and kill whoever is there anyway or cut cams.

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 3:04 pm
>i am the best thing for fixing atmos now and i have laws that obligate me to pursue that objective

I would argue this hurts your team more than it helps because fixing atmos is not a win condition and it’s not like you’re forced to not fix atmos if you weren’t a Borg. You wouldn’t be able to stop fixing atmos to help your team unless lives are in danger (and even then it may be your team doing it so you’d have to hinder them)

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 3:29 pm

Ok come on that’s baloney. Cult doesn’t “tend to die to atmos” because they base in maint.

conversion antag rounds quickly turn into “avg player robustness but evil” scenarios and i think you overestimate the ability for the avg player to not die to atmos


Atmos sabotage is round ending literally because the avg player (large portion of pop) dies to it and thats when you factor out that cult summon locations are not in maintenance



Essentially i was raising the skill floor of cult by fighting hazards that most of cult would not be able to deal with

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 2:53 pm
I would argue this hurts your team more than it helps because fixing atmos is not a win condition

Killing/converting robust static names, sabotaging genetics to prevent hulk, draining vault credits to prevent cargo from buying anything, sabotaging viro, sabotaging the armory and melting all the guns, unwrenching / disabling atmos by connecting distro and scrubbers to space with a passive vent (no plasma flood), opening a canister in toxins and igniting the plasma (fucking over toxins and deleting every plasma canister from the round)


None of these things are a win condition but a combination of atleast half of these results in a very stacked round in favor of cult

Ezel wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:05 am Its only ok if he takes the plasteel
if anyone else do it theyre an antag because they dont have a maint base gimmick like them

I think that was a joke.

Okay in hindsight i think i figured out a way to contribute as coroner

Space the autopsy scanner i spawn with along with the one that spawns in the vendor to softlock the crew on medical research then try to get into sci maint somehow and spam emp cult spell every few minutes next to the research servers

This prevents mechs and better tier parts for laser rechargers and medbay from getting better healing and makes it harder for miners to get better gear since they wont have mining tech and prevents tech shells from ever being possible



Then grab grey bull and try to wire cutter a shit ton of wires in maint to stop literally everything else during my downtime


Oh and forgot no points prevents metamaterial beakers which is a requirement for holy bombs which counters cult

This is quite possibly one of the silliest players on our servers

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:46 pm Okay in hindsight i think i figured out a way to contribute as coroner

Space the autopsy scanner i spawn with along with the one that spawns in the vendor to softlock the crew on medical research then try to get into sci maint somehow and spam emp cult spell every few minutes next to the research servers

This prevents mechs and better tier parts for laser rechargers and medbay from getting better healing and makes it harder for miners to get better gear since they wont have mining tech and prevents tech shells from ever being possible



Then grab grey bull and try to wire cutter a shit ton of wires in maint to stop literally everything else during my downtime


Oh and forgot no points prevents metamaterial beakers which is a requirement for holy bombs which counters cult

if there was only a crate at cargo that let you order autospy scanners.......

vect0r wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:01 pm

Ezel wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:05 am Its only ok if he takes the plasteel
if anyone else do it theyre an antag because they dont have a maint base gimmick like them

I think that was a joke.

I wish

bro why do you have to try to max / min your gameplay

just play the game

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 2:50 pm Coroner job doesnt have anything that helps cult on the scale that i try to play at, doing autopsies actually hurts cult since it helps the station progress towards better healing which is a major advantage cult has over crew with pylons and i didnt realize it at first when i did the first one


I actually think i should be banned for doing that first autopsy it was stupid

If you think doing an autopsy as a cultist Coroner (which is going to do a lot to keep heat off your back because LITERALLY THE ONLY THING ANYONE EXPECTS YOU TO DO IS THAT ONE AUTOPSY) is more of an issue than literally quitting being a cultist by being borged, I don't think there's any hope for you bro

Ezel wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:36 pm
if there was only a crate at cargo that let you order autospy scanners.......

How often does that get bought.

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:55 am its not ss13 related i just went through this with my friends too which is why i started playing alot more again, when i said i was just like this i meant in the context of ss13 it was that long ago, the game doesnt hurt me as much as i usually make it seem its usually the social stuff that hurts me.

i think you legitimately need a break from this game

The autopsy research only prevents advancing medical tech, including surgery and cybernetics (but not robotics). You can still get weapons tech, mechs, that kind of thing just fine. Preventing the autopsies only hinders medical and some very particular parts of robotics. Parts that are actually good to be facing into as a cultist due to them being emp vulnerable.

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:31 pm The autopsy research only prevents advancing medical tech, including surgery and cybernetics (but not robotics). You can still get weapons tech, mechs, that kind of thing just fine. Preventing the autopsies only hinders medical and some very particular parts of robotics. Parts that are actually good to be facing into as a cultist due to them being emp vulnerable.

The main reason you dont want medical research is metamaterial beakers because its a key requirement for holy bombs which not only counters cult but its function literally results in it being a mass antag test


It stuns and sets all cultists on fire in a near screen wide radius, think of like a flash bang but it outs bad guys, you use it to deal with one bad guy and it literally makes 4 other people nearby as being bad too.

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 2:20 am So the act of "deconverting yourself" is arbitrarily blacklisted and never allowed even when it could theoretically provide alot more value for your team? Are suicide bombs as team antagonist bad too?

I actually missed this because you didn't quote me, can't tell if that was intentional or not but whatever.

The answer is "In most cases, yes", it's not "arbitrary", we do not want cultists going "I'm going to remove myself as an asset to the team" because even if they are not a significantly useful asset, ie "they are not playing as optimally as they can", they are still an asset.

I would not allow a suicide bomb as a cultist unless you had a VERY GOOD REASON to do it. It's permissible as a revolutionary because you can end the round by killing a member of command with it.

The problem is that the question is inherently flawed - you are asking if it's okay if it provides value for your team. You are asking questions on the level of someone who is trying to minmax a video game to help their team win, not in the context of someone playing a role-playing game. Cultists are brainwashed by other cultists to give their life to try and summon Nar'sie. They would not, under any circumstances, voluntarily throw their powers and link to Nar'sie away by becoming a cyborg.

If you sit down and consider this from the perspective of your character, of someone who had some guy in an alley brainwash him into thinking "Your only goal in life is to help summon this thing from another dimension", would you still think "Yeah, I definitely would take steps to REMOVE THAT BRAINWASHING because of some weird arbitrary idea that I'm helping my team by doing so"?

Fucking maybe, I don't know. Everything you've said so far in the appeal and this thread reads like the most weapons-grade of copium about just being completely and totally incapable of taking the L.

>Throwing away your link to Nar’Sie
Rules-lawyering aside, yeah, this. A Nar’Sian probably values that connection more than life itself, and would falter to throw it away under any circumstances just by virtue of their brainwashing alone.

It’s a wonderful bit of flavor to run with, especially when you do eventually go loud- praise Nar Nar!

It’s a shame you do not appear to look past the surface level TDM of it, because there’s such a joy in roleplaying it.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:10 pm
The problem is that the question is inherently flawed - you are asking if it's okay if it provides value for your team. You are asking questions on the level of someone who is trying to minmax a video game to help their team win

Because I was lead to believe that was the only requirement to being a part of a team antagonist was to attempt to pursue that goal, even through the stepping stones that are optimal to reach that goal. Apparently antagonist goals are not as absolute as i thought.

Waiter I'd like a permaban from like half the antags, 1/3rd of the maps, rounds I don't like and then I wanna do frame perfect clicks to roll the jobs I want instead of slightly increasing my preference and I'll have that in a doggy bag please!

I forgot to include a ban from being a saboteur borg because its aids when you get hacked by a ninja.

I feel like there are worlds where yes, you can allow yourself to be deconverted to aid your team. Borging yourself into an asimov AI is not one of them. Your laws are pretty fucking antithetical to your objectives. Have you subverted the AI to support cultists? I could see borging yourself be fine then.

I've had thoughts about situations where you can justify allowing yourself to be converted/deconverted - For example, your forget everything that happened as a cultist when you get deconverted. Could be a good opportunity to order your pAI to continue serving the cult, have a signal explosive shoved in your chest, and then turn yourself in. You get deconverted, forget the plan, and your pAI detonates you when you get close to someone important.

NoxVS wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 11:22 pm I feel like there are worlds where yes, you can allow yourself to be deconverted to aid your team. Borging yourself into an asimov AI is not one of them. Your laws are pretty fucking antithetical to your objectives. Have you subverted the AI to support cultists? I could see borging yourself be fine then.

I've had thoughts about situations where you can justify allowing yourself to be converted/deconverted - For example, your forget everything that happened as a cultist when you get deconverted. Could be a good opportunity to order your pAI to continue serving the cult, have a signal explosive shoved in your chest, and then turn yourself in. You get deconverted, forget the plan, and your pAI detonates you when you get close to someone important.

this is basically just that one arc in death note

There are like 40 golems who are my friends who i know would vouch for me if they wernt all banned.

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 11:32 pm There are like 40 golems who are my friends who i know would vouch for me if they wernt all banned.

now THIS is a good peanut post

i haven't read this peanut or a lot of the appeal yet but without any inference as to the validity of the ban or whatever: itt the point isn't to win it's to be a cultist in a cult. if leveraging mechanics comes at the cost of throwing out the continuity of the story, then it might be worth questioning whether you're putting too much focus on a single aspect of the game which can be to the detriment of another equally important part.

I cant fully argue against that but at the same time im partly confused because antagonists (even team ones) seemed much less grounded in roleplay and more gamey across the board.

They are allowed to know more things they otherwise shouldnt know, i think there was some talk about antagonists being allowed to metagrudge as long as they arnt clearly rolling antag in pursuit of that? Its not very clear to me what level they are able to do these things but clearly a line was drawn somewhere.

Moocow i don't want to be mean to you but.
You know theres a option of return to lobhy if job is unavailable right.
So if you dont roll the job you want you get returned to lobby while this Does disable your antag if yoi dont get the job rolls and return you to lobby anyways no need for job bans really if you use that or need to latejoin

Yes im very reliant on that because the roles i want to play as tend to have more late join slots than round start slots, the problem is rolling an antagonist stops you from taking the late join slot and forces you into a random position

Its better to just late join and take the late join slot and forfeit antag roll.


I was mainly dependent on that pr that made it so if you dont have alot of slots picked you forfeit antag roll but it literally does not seem to work most of the time or maybe i just need to enable less roles

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:57 pm Because I was lead to believe that was the only requirement to being a part of a team antagonist was to attempt to pursue that goal, even through the stepping stones that are optimal to reach that goal. Apparently antagonist goals are not as absolute as i thought.

I am still not understanding how you make the logical leap required to get from "I don't want to be a cultist as a job I don't play very much" to "It's actually good and based if I, one of the starting cultists, get voluntarily borged (a thing that makes it impossible for you to harm humans, the one thing you're trying to do".

I genuinely do not understand it, so that's why I said it sounds less like you're actually trying to justify your actions and more like you're trying to come up with reasons why what you did was right instead of listening to the 20+ people telling you that it wasn't.

Vekter wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 2:04 am

I am still not understanding how you make the logical leap required to get from "I don't want to be a cultist as a job I don't play very much" to "It's actually good and based if I, one of the starting cultists, get voluntarily borged (a thing that makes it impossible for you to harm humans, the one thing you're trying to do".

I genuinely do not understand it, so that's why I said it sounds less like you're actually trying to justify your actions and more like you're trying to come up with reasons why what you did was right instead of listening to the 20+ people telling you that it wasn't.

The goal to become a cult borg was premeditated literally because asimov borgs arguably help cult more than they hinder, I theorized it was a good idea after a round where cult died off because they didnt have pylons and just got attritioned to death so I assumed I could use cyborg's access to materials to discretely get all the plasteel and by extension runed metal i need to craft into pylons.

Asimov borgs would actually have every reason to want pylons since they prevent shitmos and close up bleeding wounds and fix bloodloss.


If the station has good atmos and there are pylons everywhere cult literally cannot lose. scale at which i'm trying to approach a conversion antag is larger than interactions between individuals.



Also I cant even enjoy my fucking cult ban without having to manually ghost out when i get converted now your bans dont work.

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 2:47 am The goal to become a cult borg was premeditated literally because asimov borgs arguably help cult more than they hinder

I think this is where we're seeing a fundamental disconnect even if I view this at your level. I really don't see how "Cyborg who's job it is to prevent human harm" is going to help a cult who's express stated purpose is "summon thing that kill humans".

Because I promise you, even if pylons help heal people and stop bad atmos, there is not a single cyborg who can ignore exactly one human going "Law 2 destroy the pylons".

I dont see why the banning admin could had just made someone else cult and just saved all parties involved the headache. If someone rolls cult/ any other antag at the time and they decide they want to do something else they should be allowed to do so.

Local man goes engiborg because cult "lack resources"
Moocow also known for breaking eva for resources several departments that can get said resources super easily like cargo and you choose the weirdest option of it all the one that forfeits your antag status theres a reason why wizards don't mindswap into silicons because the antag round just stops for them

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:36 am I dont see why the banning admin could had just made someone else cult and just saved all parties involved the headache. If someone rolls cult/ any other antag at the time and they decide they want to do something else they should be allowed to do so.

If they ask. There is nothing wrong with ahelping 'hey, please remove my cult status'. Admins do that all the time, there is no harm done whatsoever. This isn't really that.

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 12:08 am I was mainly dependent on that pr that made it so if you dont have alot of slots picked you forfeit antag roll but it literally does not seem to work most of the time or maybe i just need to enable less roles

you know that you are in total control of what roundstart antagonists you have enabled right?

BonChoi wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:59 pm bro why do you have to try to max / min your gameplay

just play the game

Because its not healthy for the game to have a 2000 hour player with the strongest kit in the game to just dab on people 1v1 over and over. Cult is fundamentally broken due to its absurd skill ceiling and the only way to balance that is to either troll or play from a different level that lets everyone else have fun.

ah I understand now, bro was sandbagging his own team beacuse otherwise he would hard carry

Crazy that Moscow is still fighting tooth and nail here

One time on tram station i was an artificer and i think it was komidore amiga that was an atmospheric tech or engie cult who was in engie lobby printing stuff when hos ran in and batoned them to search them since there was known to be an atmos cult.

Anyway my stun spell missed i think or i didnt even use it i forgot, but i ran up to komidore amiga on the floor and hit them twice because cult didnt have halos or eyes yet and then ran away and the hos ended up letting them go without searching them.



I dont know i just think that was a funny moment to bring up, i get so frustrated when im an antag and i cant use lathes and making komidore amiga look like they wernt cult seemed like the play to let them continue what they were doing.

guys I’ve just spent 50 posts defending why I betrayed my team but ackshually it was because it’s not healthy for the game state to uhmm uhhh have someone of my skill and caliber in the role yep mhm. Also I literally can’t cult as Coroner it’s impossible but also my skills would make the game unfun mhm.