2k17 /pol/

[FantasticFwoosh]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Just die and save money.

[imblyings]

This is the essential issue with modern politics- people are not entering into arguments with the purpose of taking in information and perhaps altering their opinions, they are there for the endorphin hit that comes with asserting the superiority of one's own position.

That's a really sly post there. Hit two birds with one stone while making the disingenuous claim that arguments in politics existed back then for some sort of reasonable debate you'd see in research communities. It was an issue ever since human nature was a thing and it's very telling that you reference modern politics.

[insinuate with self awareness]That's a really sly post there.[/insinuate with self awareness or ironic eye rolling]
Nah, good catch even if you didn't call yourself out for extra meta le ironic points!

Perhaps you'd like to post an argument about politics not being used to assert the superiority of one's own position before modern times. If you can't do that, maybe you can figure out how sly it is prop up politics in the past as if it were different, paint it in a more positive light, and then paint everyone arguing modern politics as people chasing endorphin hits.

It's not just a sly post, it's a well-crafted post. He could be a politician with this level of skill in bending words around. Or a politician's speech writer.

[DemonFiren]

Ausops' heritage really is showing.

[imblyings]

As do the people who post like that.

[Malkevin]

Riddle me this, if you can't conquer the world through force do you build bridges and unite it? Or just hold everyone in the palm of your hand that agrees with you and shut everyone else out on their own.

I guess we've moved on from any form of actual political traction to readily destroy each other and just play slow games.

Why is someone conquering the world in the first place? The last few people who tried doing this caused millions of deaths, even if they were capable administrators after the wars they caused, but even in the end not a single one of their empires lasted.

Because humans are greedy bastards and always desire what the other guy has.

[oranges]

[youtube]up28hlTaqaA[/youtube]

[oranges]

Socialist medicine blows ass.

mate ya dreaming

[XSI]

My parents always respond the same when I ask them who they vote for

They vote to hang all of the traitors in politics.
All of them
Not a single one would survive if it were up to them

[DemonFiren]

The future is bright.

OW FUCK MY EYES

[Drynwyn]

BBC: Premature lambs kept alive in 'plastic bag' womb

The Matrix is almost upon us. We have until... from this point, the same amount of time it takes to allow human cloning from the time of the incident of patient zero, Dolly.

It's a bit more complex than that.

First of all, they specified that the ... fetus? Lamb? (The proper nomenclature gets a bit murky here) does all the blood-pumping with it's own heart, which requires said heart to be fully developed- so this would only work at all for late-stage embryos to begin with, even if they bypassed this next bit:

Secondly, the mix doesn't include any development-inducing hormones that are normally released into the womb by a mother that stimulate fetal development, which would limit application to the last month, month and a half tops of fetal development if you don't want to end up with an infant with extreme and likely fatal developmental issues. Not just "mentally damaged", straight up "organs don't work".

So it's a cool new technology, and it's a step towards the Matrix, but there's a lot of work yet to do before we overthrow all disgusting meatbags and welcome our glorious robot overlords have to start worrying.

[Drynwyn]

Oh, yeah I was joking. I just thought it was really cool. There was a problem they clearly highlighted in the article too, about the machine ventilators they had available for the tests would damage lungs although they didn't really say in what way, I assume permanently. So I hope they figure out how to not do that or how to treat it.

It just sounds really cool! Whilst you could be mean and say this doesn't help the CK2 option of only the strong survive, hey, more potential ways to save people even pre birth that might be well researched in our lifetimes!

The ventilators are a thing that are used currently for premature babies. IIRC, they pressurize and depressurize the chamber in sequence to simulate breathing- the damage they inflict (usually burst alveoli) isn't permanent per se, but it can be fatal if too many burst and it can take years to heal.

The artificial womb discussed doesn't interact with the lungs at all- they fill with liquid! Normally, that would be fatal, but it's not actually lack of air in your lungs that kills you- it's lack of oxygen in the blood. What gets pumped through the umbilical cord includes freshly-oxygenated blood, so the lamb doesn't suffocate even though it can't "breathe" per se.

[Drynwyn]

i guess i was dumb and shouldn't have read it in a hurry before tea then. Will go back and reread it now then.

Edit: yeah I see now what I was being dumb about and skim read earlier. Ta for the save!

I mean I wouldn't expect most people to have a detailed knowledge about biomedical tech, I only know about this because I'm working on an actual biochemistry degree.

[Luke Cox]

We've lost Bill Nye

[ShadowDimentio]

The Great Meme War claims another good soul...

[Armhulen]

We've lost Bill Nye

[youtube]5abrr1LIHwk[/youtube]

[ShadowDimentio]

In other news, Sargon did a big video about By Any Means Necessary, the group responsible for the various Berkley riots and how they're actually a cult. After he got to the last part where some guy wrote a Facebook post about his experience with them as a former member and how they indoctrinated him, ran him away from his parents to another city, and when he tried to leave they tried to physically stop him. It's the first time in a long while that I've felt genuinely haunted by something, the FBI needs to shut these people down.

[XSI]

Maybe they will

Physically stopping someone from leaving is against the law so there is a chance. Being a cult is not though

[ShadowDimentio]

Actual cults are extremely illegal.

Encouraging people to leave their homes and become emotionally and financially dependent on you to the point that they'll do whatever you tell them to do is, and then blacklisting and sabotaging the lives of anyone that tries to leave by either physically stopping them or stealing their things so that they can't leave and then lying to the police is extremely illegal.

If the FBI actually did an investigation I'm certain that the ringleaders would be going to bigtime jail, this is a very lukewarm form of terrorism.

[XSI]

The problem is that a good lawyer(And you just know these kind of fucks have the support for a lawyer from SOMEWHERE) can easily just talk over everything except the physically stopping and stealing. Shit, if they're really good, they can do the stealing too

Unless, of course, everything was videotaped 100% clear with sound, then it gets slightly difficult but theyll still minimize the punishment

[oranges]

We've lost Bill Nye

because he states facts you disagree with? There's not much scientifically that disproves the things he is saying. People do have a binary gender in most cases, determined by their DNA. But their actual sexality, like all sociological factors can vary wildly.

[Super Aggro Crag]

You're allowed to have different opinions but when you're a self congratulatory dickhead about your own opinion you become an annoying donkeybrain.

[oranges]

Yeah I guess you're right again crag

[Incomptinence]

Do trans people exist? Yes. Something about hormone imbalance in the womb not an expert probably butchered that.
Is it fun times crotchsona shit? Nope.
Is it rare? Yes.

Is everyone and their nan trans due to defining gender as an endless spectrum? Probably not in a statistically significant way?
Would such an interpretation validate the notion of more masculine than male Übermenschen? I jokingly say yes.

Do these people follow the scientific method? (not just gender this whole raft of shit)
https://twitter.com/realpeerreview?lang=en this twitter account always gets me with examples of their studies and methods:

http://dcqr.ucpress.edu/content/5/2/6
"Summoning up the Ghost with Needle and Thread"
Tapestries to contact your white colonial "ghost"or some shit

http://ltu.diva-portal.org/smash/record ... dswid=5978
"Implementing feminist theory in engineering: obstacles within the gender studies tradition"
Note Bill Nye was has a degree in mechanical engineering what he learned is not safe nor is any area of study.

https://journals.aps.org/prper/abstract ... .12.020114
"Enriching gender in physics education research: A binary past and a complex future"
Trying to achieve a grand unified theory just isn't complex enough.

Shit like write your hobby into the study, navel gazing literal self study, personal experiences with your family, ask your colleges in gender studies how they feel about studies based on how people felt about studies on studies on studies decades ago etc are rife.

I feel sorry for the actual transgendered people things that should be supporting them are choked with people who fake it for attention.
There is backlash to this shit all the time and when it gets to levels that might inconvenience these trans-trenders the fair weather friends are going to jump ship and people with actual gender dysphoria will be stuck on the receiving end.

[Screemonster]

I'm not sure how much of it is transtrenders so much as peer pressure

I know people who have escaped tumblr and there's so much of that "down with cis" "if you're a straight white male you're personally responsible for every evil and there is no repentance" and so on that they wound up just publicly identifying as nonbinary on there just to escape the gaze of people looking for an excuse to scream at them

which is a special fucking irony when tumblr starts forcing people to hide their gender identity in fear of a hateful backlash if they reveal themselves

[Super Aggro Crag]

Mr nye's previous show was designed to educate people and teach people things. Due to "its not my job to educate you you fucking SHITLORD" being in the vogue his new program is merely an opportunity for people to turn their noses up and laugh at people who aren't as "culturally enriched" as they are. Ignorance is the prime human condition. Babies are born not knowing SHIT. Looking down on people for not knowing as much as you about something that doesn't have any impact in their lives is just being a doo doo canoe.

[Incomptinence]

Mr nye's previous show was designed to educate people and teach people things. Due to "its not my job to educate you you fucking SHITLORD" being in the vogue his new program is merely an opportunity for people to turn their noses up and laugh at people who aren't as "culturally enriched" as they are. Ignorance is the prime human condition. Babies are born not knowing SHIT. Looking down on people for not knowing as much as you about something that doesn't have any impact in their lives is just being a doo doo canoe.

You are right about ignorance. Even prolific in people pro science or environmental protections sadly. Lots or people are pro science they barely understand probably me included on shit I have not studied myself.
These guys however aren't even enriched or educated, the science has gotten so bad it's absurd.

The funny thing is useful things could actually come out of the social sciences.
If they bothered to follow the scientific method.
Fakes produce nothing but new spin and lies just like the fuckers who made lead additives for petrol used to pay for.

[Incomptinence]

Ah fuck lemme fix that. I proof read my shitty posts I swear.

[ShadowDimentio]

We've lost Bill Nye

because he states facts you disagree with? There's not much scientifically that disproves the things he is saying. People do have a binary gender in most cases, determined by their DNA. But their actual sexality, like all sociological factors can vary wildly.

What facts? He had no evidence to back up a word he said, he just asserted it as truth. The burden of proof falls on the asserter to prove it true, not the rest of the world to disprove it.

The whole idea of the gender spectrum is totally moronic. For humans there exist two genders, transgenders are the exception to this, not the rule, and REAL transgenders, people born that way that had no control over this, are incredibly rare. There's zero science backing up anything close to a third gender.

Sexuality is totally fluid though because it's psychological. You can go from wanting to fuck guys to girls at any time, but no matter how hard you believe your dick isn't going to get pregnant and no amount of butchering transgender surgeries that turn you infertile will change that.

[DemonFiren]

I'm pretty sure that gender and biological sex are not the same thing.
Gender is purely a thought concept, at best a social construct, at worst raw autism.

[Wyzack]

Yeah I dunno, gender roles are kind of just a biproduct of older times when the biological differences between men and women mattered more and you needed to pump out kids as fast as possible because you kept having children die at birth, from disease or to predators so women were pregnant all the time as a necessity to propagate the species.

Now that we have basically no selection pressures anymore these roles are kinda less important. They are also not intrinsically tied to sex, as you can be a homemaker dude or a woman who supports the household, we dont have the same boundaries as we used to.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Why the fuck can't you be a girl who likes monster trucks or a guy who likes porcelain horses without cutting up your wee wee and your woo woo and telling everyone to check their privilege

[ColonicAcid]

you guys ever been so rigid in your thought that anything that your daddy and mummy dont agree with you also do not agree with because thats how it used to be and thats how its gonna be.

its my way or the highway boy.

[lntigracy]

Not everyone has a daddy, check your privilege

[oranges]

We've lost Bill Nye

because he states facts you disagree with? There's not much scientifically that disproves the things he is saying. People do have a binary gender in most cases, determined by their DNA. But their actual sexality, like all sociological factors can vary wildly.

What facts? He had no evidence to back up a word he said, he just asserted it as truth. The burden of proof falls on the asserter to prove it true, not the rest of the world to disprove it.

The whole idea of the gender spectrum is totally moronic. For humans there exist two genders, transgenders are the exception to this, not the rule, and REAL transgenders, people born that way that had no control over this, are incredibly rare. There's zero science backing up anything close to a third gender.

Sexuality is totally fluid though because it's psychological. You can go from wanting to fuck guys to girls at any time, but no matter how hard you believe your dick isn't going to get pregnant and no amount of butchering transgender surgeries that turn you infertile will change that.

So you agree with him and me?

[ShadowDimentio]

No.

[Screemonster]

Why the fuck can't you be a girl who likes monster trucks or a guy who likes porcelain horses without cutting up your wee wee and your woo woo and telling everyone to check their privilege

that's actually one of the things non-batshit people talk about when it comes to "patriarchy" crap, the idea that it cuts both ways by telling dudes they aren't allowed to like "girly" things or MUST like a specific set of "manly" things

and then a bunch of teenagers grow up confused like "I don't actually like beer and football, does this make me not really male?" and we have the clusterfuck we have today

[Luke Cox]

Homosexuality has an established basis in neurology. Psychiatric medicine recognizes gender dysphoria as a disorder? Why? Because you can prove that these things actually exist in the real world. There's testable evidence behind them. The only thing the "gender spectrum" has backing it is a bunch of emotional dribble. No evidence was provided by Bill Nye at any point other than "I said it and I'm a scientist, believe me!"


Gender isn't something you choose, it's something you're born with. For 99.9% of the population, it's the same as their biological sex (I am not exaggerating, it is literally 999 out of every 1000 people). For the remaining .1%, there are clear neurological reasons that they identify as the opposite gender (their brain structure tends to more closely resemble that of the gender they identify as). Do a brain scan of someone who is "genderqueer" and I guarantee that you won't find any abnormalities like you would in someone who suffers from gender dysphoria. It's made up bullshit that delegitimizes legitimate suffering.

[ColonicAcid]

Just because gender dysphoria is currently diagnosed as a neurological disease doesn't mean it is lmao.

Homosexuality used to be in the ICD 9. Is that now considered a mental disorder? Psychology/neurology isn't chemistry or physics, there's very little hard facts. It's mostly theories, theories that have the most evidence are usually the supported ones but that doesn't mean they're correct or even close to it.

Don't fall into the trap just because it's classified as a mental disorder in both ICD-9 and ICD-10 doesn't mean it's going to stay there forever.


I mean like why do you even care so much lmao. A large portion of transgender people don't even announce anything to the world, they become something they're more comfortable and they live with it. This crusader attitude that you NEED to tell these people that they're "biological sex is actually X, Y and Z" as if that's going to change anything is so asinine it's incredible. Yes, there's some obnoxious transgender people, the kinda people who make stupid pronouns or some shit or marginalize issues by saying that they're half fucking andromeda and half unicorn or some shit, but that's true for nearly all communities. The homosexual community is rife with the whole "stereotypical gay person" who's obnoxious and EVERYTHING has to do with their sexuality, but for everyone one of those people there's 1000 normal people that at the end of the day instead of going home to sleep with someone of the opposite sex they do it with someone of their own sex.

This fucking incessant arguing about stupid diatribes regarding gender is like people in the 70's arguing how "biologically we're supposed to be heterosexual or else how would we spread our genes xdddd". We've reached a fucking point in our species where we have free will. We are fucking beyond our genes controlling every little single thing in our lives. We no longer need to spread our genes so what is the actual problem if a small portion of the population want to be infertile. How does this affect you, it's not like anyone is forcing for you to undergo any of the shit they have to. I mean fuck for majority of the time you're going to spend in this Earth you are probably going to meet less than a handful transexuals so please, tell me, what does it actually matter if they're not their "biological sex".

[Super Aggro Crag]

They're annoying, so fuck 'em.

[Luke Cox]

Just because gender dysphoria is currently diagnosed as a neurological disease doesn't mean it is lmao.

Homosexuality used to be in the ICD 9. Is that now considered a mental disorder? Psychology/neurology isn't chemistry or physics, there's very little hard facts. It's mostly theories, theories that have the most evidence are usually the supported ones but that doesn't mean they're correct or even close to it.

Don't fall into the trap just because it's classified as a mental disorder in both ICD-9 and ICD-10 doesn't mean it's going to stay there forever.

That's where you're wrong, buddy. Tell me, what does being homosexual entail? Liking the same gender. That's all, no additional baggage outside of social stigmas. No reduction in the quality of their lives. That is not the case with gender dysphoria, not even remotely. Even in cultures where transgender people are 100% accepted, people with gender dysphoria still suffer from crippling depression and anxiety. Do you have any idea how many of them kill themselves because they can't stand the pain anymore? They have to undergo tons of therapy and numerous procedures just to be able to alleviate the anxiety. It's a fucking disorder, and it's a horrible one. Anyone who thinks that homosexuality and gender dysphoria are even remotely comparable has no fucking clue how either works.

[ColonicAcid]

>No reduction in the quality of their lives.

Oh so when they were chemically castrated as part of their "treatment" that didn't affect their quality of life at all uh?

Yeah I too like to get my dick chemically snipped off I dunno about you guys lmao it's just a little bit of fun.

[ShadowDimentio]

Just because gender dysphoria is currently diagnosed as a neurological disease doesn't mean it is lmao.

Homosexuality used to be in the ICD 9. Is that now considered a mental disorder? Psychology/neurology isn't chemistry or physics, there's very little hard facts. It's mostly theories, theories that have the most evidence are usually the supported ones but that doesn't mean they're correct or even close to it.

Don't fall into the trap just because it's classified as a mental disorder in both ICD-9 and ICD-10 doesn't mean it's going to stay there forever.

Gender dysphoria is absolutely a real disease. Just take a cursory glance at the suicide rates for transgenders and you'll see they're like 18x more likely to kill themselves, regardless of any surgeries to make them a more convincing version of the other sex. Clearly there's something very wrong here psychologically, and pretending that the only issue is acceptance is just going to have more people driven to suicide due to lack of treatment.

And I mean think about it. If you were totally consumed by the idea that you were the wrong gender, enough so that you were willing to attempt transitioning surgeries that cost a small fortune and are far from easy on your body, I'd think it no small wonder that even after it was all said and done you'd still be haunted by the idea that you're still not a *real* woman/man, and that's to say nothing of the physiological changes in their bodies as they're flooded with testosterone/estrogen.

I'm not transgender so I can't affirm this, but think about it yourself.

[ColonicAcid]

They're annoying, so fuck 'em.

Crag my boy you do the same thing except instead of talking about how you're stuck in the wrong body you talk about how you don't have a house.

different strokes for different folks, I don't really care either way, and that's how it should be.

@shadow correlation doesnt mean causation. the suicide rate could be entirely due to societal pressure.

[XSI]

To be fair it's not like they're going to use it to make babies, now are they?

[ShadowDimentio]

I'm certainly willing to believe that some transgender folk are driven to suicide by societal pressure, but 18x more is just astronomical. I'm no psychologist, but there's obviously something to that number besides a few people occasionally being rude.

[oranges]

No.

So you don't think sexuality is a spectrum then? I'm very confused, you and me and bill Nye all agree that gender is a physical attribute granted by DNA and is one of several set states, but sexuality is a sociological construct and can be completely random and change over time.

[Luke Cox]

>No reduction in the quality of their lives.

Oh so when they were chemically castrated as part of their "treatment" that didn't affect their quality of life at all uh?

Yeah I too like to get my dick chemically snipped off I dunno about you guys lmao it's just a little bit of fun.

What the fuck are you talking about? I'm talking about medical consequences. Homosexuality isn't automatically accompanied by extreme depression and anxiety. Gender dysphoria is. Homosexuals don't have to undergo extreme medical procedures just to get some relief from the depression.

They're annoying, so fuck 'em.

Crag my boy you do the same thing except instead of talking about how you're stuck in the wrong body you talk about how you don't have a house.

different strokes for different folks, I don't really care either way, and that's how it should be.

@shadow correlation doesnt mean causation. the suicide rate could be entirely due to societal pressure.

It's not. There is no culture/country to my knowledge where transsexuals don't have a disproportionately high suicide rate. If it really is comparable to homosexuality, why don't they have higher suicide rates across the board?

[Super Aggro Crag]

Fuck off colonic acid, I'm not the one telling teenage girls they're a bunch of bigots who should hang themselves because they're uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a classmate who refuses to wear underwear so his fucking cock flips out of his neon pink miniskirt. I'm not the one getting women's shelters and charities shut down for not catering to MY needs. I'm not the one shutting down a long running feminist event because I felt the need to chase victims of abuse around flashing my cock at children and screaming im more of a woman because I have a dick. I'm not the one pumping a 5 year old with hormones so I can tell all my friends at Starbucks that im on the right side of history. I'm not the one demanding the taxpayer pay for HRT and surgery for a man who killed his wife because after 20 years in jail he decided he's actually a beautiful princess. 97 percent of transwomen are fucking irritating pieces of shit who actively go out of their way to make the lives of everyone around them miserable, 2 percent you don't even know are transwomwn because they actually have gender dysphoria and try to pass, and 1 percent are okay. Never had a problem with the three transmen in the world because they mostly just ask for grooming tips for their chubby manbaby teenager Mexican mustaches.

[Luke Cox]

ITT: Some people don't think that a neurological abnormality that causes severe depression, anxiety, and a notable decrease in quality of life for its suffers should be a disorder.
ITT 2: Crag is correct.


Edit: A little food for thought: If gender dysphoria is removed from the ICD, anyone receiving financial aid for HRT can kiss that money goodbye

[Super Aggro Crag]

Thanks Luke.

I might be a bigot but I don't have any problem admitting gender dysphoria exists as an actual disorder
I just think most trans people are fucking asshats and that gender dysphoria is currently massively overdiagnosed and trendy and you can't criticize any fucking trans persons behavior without getting a no true Scotsman fallacy. There's enough teenagers out there wanting to slit their fucking wrists because they realized they weren't actually transgender and their identity politics cultfriends decided to unperson them for me to decide this whole situation is unhealthy.

[Luke Cox]

My issue with people who deny that it's a disorder is that they're fucking over people who actually suffer from it. It's not some cutesy thing that makes you special and unique, it's a crippling disorder that ruins lives. There is nothing beautiful or trendy about it. The medical community should be looking for less invasive alternatives to HRT and gender reassignment surgery, not normalizing them.