Byond account and character name OR Discord name: Bucovineanu, Ionel Ionescu
Admin: FatalX1
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: 0 (database broke nice) - Terry round that ended ~1:20 AM GMT+2, maybe something like 11:20 PM GMT
Detailed summary: First and foremost, the original ahelp context:
About midround (20 minutes in), the silo got broken by xenos and every single protolathe therefore got linked. Since the silo is a round critical item, and no one else was responding (AI tried, but APC was destroyed and bolts were down), I attempted to break in to fix it (eventually a chemist did so anyways, after I RCD'd the door). First time around, Krokodil comes and threatens me with a stun baton to stop. I explain the situation to him multiple times, yet he ignores me. I go back to work and he stuns me. In response, I shove him, cuff him and drag him back to security, then proceed back on my way. After I finally open the vault and assess the damage (silo destroyed, APC broken), Krokodil shows up again (presumably after hearing me on the radio, because I loudly announced what I was doing and why, both the first time and the second time he showed up) and without even saying a word, without me even making a move, begins firing lethals against me.
So let's quickly go over what rules I strongly believe were broken:
1. Don't be a dick; Rule 1 of the main rules apply to security. The only exception is that security is generally considered to be armed with non-lethal methods to control a situation. Therefore, where reasonably possible, security is expected to use non-lethal methods first in a conflict before escalating to lethal methods.
1.1 Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane’. Each unjustified kill is normally met with one 24 ban.
2. Escalation
2.0 Exceptions: Security is expected not to retaliate with random abuse or violence unless the person in question is otherwise eligible for execution. You can't kill or maim security for trying to arrest you for legitimate reasons.
Now I know what will be quoted as per escalation rules - namely
. However, let's read further:If you choose to retaliate with violence, you in turn have opened yourself up to violence. If you choose this route, do not expect admins to help you out if you die, even if you were not the original instigator.
. This is precisely what I did in this situation. Shoving and cuffing, then returning them to their department is not "violence". It does not give them a license to kill someone, especially someone who is trying to fix round-critical machinery, especially not as security.If you are concerned about being "kill baited" then consider calling security, using non lethal means to subdue your opponent, fleeing, or otherwise working things out (talking them down, getting your stolen items replaced, etc)
This is where we get to FatalX1, since as per rule 6 - admin decisions are final, and regardless of the result of my admin complaint, Krokodil is off the hook. I will post the last bit of my exchange, since it's the part most relevant, and the earlier parts are most likely not rule compliant. Of course, if the logs are recoverable from the round ending at about 1:20 AM GMT+2, then he can feel free to post the parts where I was - and I will openly admit this - being extremely derisive of Krokodil.
Admin PM from-FatalX1: Alright, I agree he was being super dentheaded because he didnt listen to you when you explained what you were doing but because you stunned and cuffed him I cant really give out any punishment, you make the choice to attack security you have to take the punishment, although he really shouldnt have killed you for it
PM to-Admins: This is broken moderation practice. I've been daybanned for less than this shit, just recently. I didn't escalate to killing, I didn't even escalate to punches, I de-escalated the issue by doing the shove and cuff, and heck, arguably, THE TIME HE LASERED THE SHIT OUT OF ME DOES NOT COUNT AS "IC RESPONSE" [correction: meant escalation]
Admin PM from-FatalX1: Your only recent ban is for a far different situation, and as I say, you made the choice to stun and cuff a security officer, in future maybe try to explain what you are doing without resorting to that
PM to-Admins: I did try to explain what I was doing
Admin PM from-FatalX1: Without stunning and cuffing him I mean
PM to-Admins: You obviously didn't read what I told you earlier - I told him MULTIPLE TIMES that that's what I was doing.
PM to-Admins: Why yes, let's let a [] greytide in red uniform ruin a round because shoving and cuffing would make him immune to ahelps
Admin PM from-FatalX1: Look, Ive spoken to the officer and dealt with it as I saw fit, he was excessive, you were excessive, why don't people try being nice to each other without resorting to stunning and cuffing and we wouldn't end up with these dumb situations
PM to-Admins: Look, this "you were excessive, he was excessive" line is BS. No, I wasn't excessive. I reacted as any normal person would react to a security officer grossly overstepping his bounds and preventing people from fixing a ROUND CRITICAL MACHINE.
PM to-Admins: If I shot at him, killed him, strangled him to death, spaced him, shuttlecrushed him, or stole everything he had and buckled him to a chair in maint you'd have a point
Admin PM from-FatalX1: Well Ive dealt with it as I saw fit, if you really disagree with my ruling so much you can make an admin complaint, I'm not arguing with you any longer about it