/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:30 pm**

Bottom post of the previous page:

I can be an admin, bomb the whole station because I believe in administration miscommunication (something that isn't new since just last month we have kor vs mso in secborg control), then get off with a 2 day ban and continue being an admin?

I got a fucking week ban for attacking a monkey with a welder as a drone.
Fuck you greytide-mins and your kiss ass "let's just been friends" meme.

Why wouldn't anyone be pissed about this?
Everyone has a part to play, at this point.

edit: i have no real side on, just listing important double standards that happen sometimes

Posted: **Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:34 pm**

I'm still for a possibly extended ban but no deadminning.

Posted: **Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:39 pm**

He purposely abused his power and should be deadminned. Doesn't matter if he was an okay admin beforehand, If he's known to nuke the station just to make a point then he's a shitmin, plain and simple.

Believe it or not administration is an easy job, it's actually pretty hard to fuck up provided you're familiar with the game and have eyes.

Posted: **Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:40 pm**

Armhulen wrote:OK. The gravity of what happened was rationalized to me and I'm going to take another look. I know I keep switching sides or whatever but I'm just trying to do something I won't regret for the rest of my time here

We do count a day for unfair killing so I'm just trying to think about whether a really long break or just deadminning will do but I think this is what I'm gonna stick with for now and hopefully till we wrap it up

Finally, I know I'm going to regret this somehow but I'm gonna unlock it for DISCUSSION. This isn't about Nilons and I don't want to hear about him. Just stuff about what happened and reasoning behind what you think would be a good punishment

While what sawrge did was wrong, it was by no means mean-spirited or malicious, and they've apologized to the people caught in the crossfire (the 70~ something players).

That said, rule 10 exists, and one round is one round. Give him a week off to cool him off and call it that. Intent matters, and obviously any recurrence of such behaviour would be more then enough grounds to deadmin.

As a side note, while discussion is all good in principle, I really think this is a matter the headmins should have decided in private rather then opening the podium to everyone posting, especially since the matter is as much about cats vs no cats as it is Sawrge's actions. Just my two cents.

oranges wrote:how can you even claim it was the point to make swarge mad, even I have no idea why MSO made the change

besides swarge has been an admin long enough to know how to fucking bring issues up with the headadmins and MSO and it's not by turbo fucking everyone elses round, as it is it's made your admin team into a laughing stock so good job I guess

And you'd think someone else would have been a maintainer long enough to not intentionally antagonize the playerbase while pretending (however provably false) that you had taken an action which would be entirely in character for you. High horse is a long way to fall, fruit.

Posted: **Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:45 pm**

>mfw Captain "post your past notes anytime you voice your opinion to try to discredit you and show how bad you are" Sawrge destroys an entire station in a literal, unironic hissyfit over CATPEOPLE

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
O I AM LAFFIN
i needed this. hot damn.

cedarbridge wrote:This thread sucks.

Administrative decisions are final. This also regards administrative decisions regarding parts of the administration by the headmins. You can be upset about this, but given that 1) the ruling has been made 2) you have literally no standing to make this complaint in the first place 3) the remaining content of this thread is devolving into an endless "but more" discussion that we got all too used to seeing in Ban Requests, its probably time to close this thread.

nigga what? i know you're a conceited child, cedar, but even you gotta realize that this is an incredibly assinine thing to say. administrative decisions are final? setting aside the HG "DIVISION IS ABSOLUTE"-tier argument, why would we have note appeals or policy discussions if this were true? its been said before many times, and the point stands: if a player had done this, it would be a month ban ABSOLUTE minimum, more than likely a perma. the fact that an admin did this yet only gets two days for it is LESS than a slap on the wrist, and just goes to show how admins tend to bend rules for other admins, or at the very least show choice behavior for them.

the sheer amount of arrogance in this single post is frankly pretty amazing, i gotta say.

Arianya wrote:While what sawrge did was wrong, it was by no means mean-spirited or malicious

>destroying the station and all the 60+ players in it in response to a joke
>not mean spirited

thats some olympic-tier mental gymnastics there. what oranges did was little more than a prank that was easily found false/revertible, but sawrge responding the way he did went way beyond acceptable retaliation. if you wanna talk about falling from high horses, talk about sawrge's generalized attitude vs this incident.

overall i firmly believe sawrge should get at LEAST a month vacation, if not deadminned outright. even if he apologized, which i admit was a good thing to do, does not erase the fact of what he did. this is absolutely unacceptable.

Posted: **Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:50 pm**

I got mad and pressed a bunch of severely round altering buttons while showboating in Discord b-but it's okay because uhm... really i'm just mad at MSO! and uh, I did this because I'm on the players side!!!!!!
Speaking as someone who WAS deadminned for abuse, he absolutely does not need to be on the team anymore.
This really is a no-brainer. What's a ban going to serve? Bans are for modifying behavior. Should I just start making sure I don't play antag when he's on? Just incase someone's trolled him, giving him the right to fuck my round up?
@Headmins, have some pride in your administration team and remove this idiot. (Who, by his own claims, neither respects you or the host)

Posted: **Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:54 pm**

Oh, I forgot to mention that if its not already been done then the antagonists of that round should be given an antag token, no questions asked!

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:00 am**

A3STH3T1CS wrote: edit: i have no real side on, just listing important double standards that happen sometimes

Claiming I have a double standard in advocating leniency and letting things go in SS13 is laughable

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:00 am**

Arianya wrote: While what sawrge did was wrong, it was by no means mean-spirited or malicious, and they've apologized to the people caught in the crossfire (the 70~ something players).

Blatantly abusing powers to ruin the rounds of 70+ players because he's mad sounds pretty malicious to me, any apologies at this point just come across to me as damage control.

Saying 'sorry' doesn't undo the damage, especially the shitty precedent that's being set by basically giving them a slap on the wrist for blatantly abusing their powers over petty bullshit.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:03 am**

Arianya wrote: And you'd think someone else would have been a maintainer long enough to not intentionally antagonize the playerbase while pretending (however provably false) that you had taken an action which would be entirely in character for you. High horse is a long way to fall, fruit.

there's a difference between bants and destroying the server, quit your projecting bullshit, it's not my fault people fell for my bait hook line and sinker, I am not going to moderate my own behaviour for other peoples lack of understanding of the server structure. I sure as shit don't have a single responsibility to not lie to your face about something I have no input on (server affairs). I do have a responsibility to not faceroll buttons when I have them, and may I remind you all, I got my coder rank removed for just spinning peoples view in a single round, so it's definitely established to be the case.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:11 am**

oranges wrote:
Arianya wrote: And you'd think someone else would have been a maintainer long enough to not intentionally antagonize the playerbase while pretending (however provably false) that you had taken an action which would be entirely in character for you. High horse is a long way to fall, fruit.
there's a difference between bants and destroying the server, quit your projecting bullshit, it's not my fault he fell for my bait hook line and sinker, I don't have a single responsibility to not lie to your face about something I have no input on (server affairs). I do have a responsibility to not faceroll buttons when I have them, and may I remind you all, I got my coder rank removed for just spinning peoples view in a single round

However much you like to pretend that you have 0 responsibility, and that separation is so absolute that you can do whatever you like, you are still in a position of responsibility and authority. You "bants"ing carries more weight then a random person's, and the fact that you think its okay to bait someone (let alone a server administrator) shows just why you shouldn't be in here trying to take the moral high ground. I'm not going to get in a big back and forth argument with you about what I dislike about you and the actions you've taken in the past, just wanted to note that you have not a leg to stand on when rallying for others to be punished for irresponsible behaviour.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:14 am**

That's the dumbest shit I have ever heard, I have fucked up the server with buttons and taken my lumps for it, but you can't diminish my comments because I enjoy making fun of people too stupid to realise when I'm doing it.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:15 am**

If others have done this before, then the admin should be deadmin for breaking rules. We know that admins have a little leeway but defending a guy who basically nuked the station because he wanted to send a messaged should be punished. He knew he can and will get in trouble for it. If a player does the same thing. 1st offence is a month ban. Second offence is a perma.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:22 am**

Arianya wrote:
oranges wrote:
Arianya wrote: just wanted to note that you have not a leg to stand on when rallying for others to be punished for irresponsible behaviour

He does and it's called having eyes and common sense. His own actions in the past doesn't make his point any less valid here.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:38 am**

But it does. There’s a reason people get off on parole, or get less time in jail for a non existent record

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:45 am**

If you ban someone who wasn't going to play anyway is it really still a ban
I think it's fine though, he either regrets it or he doesn't and it's pretty clear he does

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:48 am**

Kor wrote:
A3STH3T1CS wrote: edit: i have no real side on, just listing important double standards that happen sometimes
Claiming I have a double standard in advocating leniency and letting things go in SS13 is laughable

the whole thing stinks of forced meme if you really want my onion

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:53 am**

cedarbridge wrote:This thread sucks.

I still believe this and I also believe that the trial and the gallows is the worst way to handle something like this. There's nothing in dispute that requires discussion.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:03 am**

An admin has abused their buttons, there definitely should be a public discussion about it, which is why this forum exists.

What an admin can do and get away with are always an open debate with the community, acting as if it's the sole purview of the current admin team and locking down discussion of it would be very harmful to the long term survivability of this community, it has to evolve and change and be a living line.

Of course at the end of the day the headmin triumvirate will judge and apply the punishment, but it's very important that every one feels like they can air their opinion and that it's at least seen, if not heard.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:11 am**

oranges wrote:An admin has abused their buttons, there definitely should be a public discussion about it, which is why this forum exists.

What an admin can do and get away with are always an open debate with the community, acting as if it's the sole purview of the current admin team and locking down discussion of it would be very harmful to the long term survivability of this community, it has to evolve and change and be a living line.

Of course at the end of the day the headmin triumvirate will judge and apply the punishment, but it's very important that every one feels like they can air their opinion and that it's at least seen, if not heard.

And this is all well and good if the parties present are the ones actually agrieved. They aren't as the OP clearly illustrates.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:18 am**

Nilons has already addressed that point quite adroitly

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:31 am**

Karp wrote:
Karp wrote:You should outright punish sawrge or do nothing as leaving this open just stokes the fire for no reason. Being weak now will just cause more drama and hurt in the end.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:54 am**

As a data point of precedent, tedward1337 was deadminned demoted to trialmin for spawning a stamp for himself.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:59 am**

Tedward was bumped down to Trial

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:02 am**

Locked until I go home and arm or I post

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:53 am**

between me and kor we've both killed plenty of admins so we've come to a decision

what sawrge did was very dumb and he admits it anyway, even if his motives were good, but admins are usually deadminned on their second/third warnings. MSO placed a ban we wouldn't have placed and it's been upped to a 17 day ban or so as a result.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:58 am**

Ispiria wrote:The initializing event here was the abrupt, unannounced removal from Bagil of a cosmetic gameplay feature that a vocal majority of players are in favor of keeping.

Just quickly, why does anybody need or deserve prior warning of this if its so inconsequential & cosmetic, especially since it has caused a enormous backlash and soured public opinion of TG.

oranges wrote:That's the dumbest shit I have ever heard, I have fucked up the server with buttons and taken my lumps for it, but you can't diminish my comments because I enjoy making fun of people too stupid to realise when I'm doing it.

Like honestly, i don't blame oranges for their actions in discord since swarge & "vocal majority" of players already caused the destruction of a round just by being triggered themselves over something inconsequential, and hence this was waiting to happen one way or another for your consideration upon applying for a punishment (which i see has now been upped) and will likely happen again.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:30 am**

Has it not been established that the 'vocal majority' is in contention due to the lack of vetting with the votes and that there is a distinct possibility many of the votes were from people who either never returned to the server or don't play in some regard?

On topic, a 2.5 week ban seems around fair give or take, I'd also suggest demotion to Trial Admin if not for Sawrge to step down as a admin for abusing their position to destroy the station as some kind of political statement.

Also I would ask that, if applicable, all the antagonists of that round be given an Antag Token to make up for the round being ruined by a admin.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:40 am**

Steelpoint wrote:Has it not been established that the 'vocal majority' is in contention due to the lack of vetting with the votes and that there is a distinct possibility many of the votes were from people who either never returned to the server or don't play in some regard?

I've only ever seen this point raised by people who have no way to verify that fact, and with no source pointing back to MSO/Atlantaned, so I'm inclined to say its not true until someone actually proves it to be so.

Also why is this thread still opennnnnnnn

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:48 am**

Arianya wrote:I've only ever seen this point raised by people who have no way to verify that fact, and with no source pointing back to MSO/Atlantaned, so I'm inclined to say its not true until someone actually proves it to be so.

Bypassing the point that the system was not verified in the first place leaving it open ended to democratic fraud, it is impossible to substantiate whether lists of newly joined players stretching across the timeframe of the vote (or before) who have never posted on the forum or contributed (sort them out by date on the list) affected the result because it was not private or application based.

Two minutes filling out a emailed form to your forum account before being sent a link to a website with yes or no where the stats are collected afterwards by the statsbus & applied info of who voted for staff to see would be a solid system and more transparent.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:54 am**

FantasticFwoosh wrote:
Ispiria wrote:The initializing event here was the abrupt, unannounced removal from Bagil of a cosmetic gameplay feature that a vocal majority of players are in favor of keeping.
Just quickly, why does anybody need or deserve prior warning of this if its so inconsequential & cosmetic,

Because some people utilize the feature. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's been proven time and time again that for all the ignorant manchildren who want it removed for petty reasons, there is an equal if not greater amount of people who enjoy the feature or acknowledge their reasoning as petulant and thus vote to keep it. Because it is pixels in a videogame.

FantasticFwoosh wrote:especially since it has caused a enormous backlash

The only "Backlash" caused by it is people going through a process of voting and rallying against the one who, once again; decided to attempt to remove something for non-issues and petty reasoning.
The issue is not the feature, or the players. The issue is the one trying to go against the playerbase and stir shit for the sake of stirring shit or fulfilling their personal agenda.

FantasticFwoosh wrote:and soured public opinion of TG..

That's your personal opinion, and i'm sorry to say; it's irrelevant. You don't play here anyways.

Regardless, this is an Admin complaint regarding Admin behavior. Not Catpeople.
My personal opinion is that while what Sawrge did was wrong. And while it did affect uninvolved people.
His intentions weren't to do bad. He's acknowledged this, apolagized, accepted responsability; and explained himself calmly. Something people seldomly do.

Regardless, the decision here was already decided by HeadAdmins. There's little point in continuing the thread.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:05 am**

Keeping myself brief, my statements on pubic opinion & backlash could well be seen as opinion i concede but it does bear note that literally everyone is aware of this series of events now and it has already affected the attitudes of senior figures in the SS13 communit(ies).

However attempting to abstract the admin's behavior from the cause of a response to catpeople is the wrong course of action and skewers any from of discussion on the background reasoning of the incident which is important to determine things like if Swarge can be trusted to hold their title again, and risk of re-offence over a similar incident or motive.

Officially while your statement is correct, the 80 odd people affected besides Nilons have yet to come forward with a personal account of what happened. Official serious discussion thread separate to here pending.

Posted: **Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:59 pm**

@steelpoint

We applied the same voting filter to cat ears as we do headmin elections and the results remain unchanged.

/tg/Station 13

[Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol

Re: [Sawrge] - Nilons - lol