/tg/Station 13

Your byond account: Catistian
Your character name: Wax Ladrian
Their character name: Spike Christman (Security Officer)
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): Laimfu
Server and time: Sybil, ~4:15 GMT
Logs and/or screenshots: Not sure how to access?
Description of what happened: Queue antag Wax Ladrian, Atmospheric Technician. At roundstart, I go into the turbine to change my outfit to that of a CentCom Inspector through the camo kit, and pay some TC for an announcement. Everything goes well, get all access from the HoP and take an encryption key out of a captain's headset. I wander about the station, and nothing much happens until a little later in the round.
Suddenly, vines are everywhere. Because my fake gun won't be effective against vines, I make my way into the armory to grab a real gun, and start using it to fight the vines. I also throw a few weedkiller grenades into the viney hell, and the shuttle is called. I make my way to cargo to make sure more weedkiller crates are ordered. Queue Spike Christman. As I walk into cargo, I couple angry mulebots go past me and I rush into the relative safety of the cargo bay. Here, Spike Christman and the QM(?) are standing about, while I try to open the goat crates that are already there. Spike throws a flashbang and arrests me. At this point, its important to note that I've done nothing to indicate me as a criminal.
Spike strips me, commenting on the guns in my backpack. I explain to him that CentCom gave me one, and I was using the other one to fight vines. He doesn't even seem to hear me, and I ask over securities channel what my crime is. Nobody can pull up a solid answer. Spike proceeds to cart me around the station, leaving all my perfectly legal goods on the ground and confiscating both my guns.
He refuses to answer me about what crime I commited, why I'm being arrested or anything. Eventually, he states that I was involved in a perma breakout (presumably caused by the graytide virus earlier in the round), hacking mulebots (I hadn't even gone in cargo that round yet), and having two huge guns in my backpack (which I had a weapons permit for). He doesn't listen to any of my pleas of innocence, or me asking what evidence he has. Eventually, he states that he "doesn't need evidence because I was wanted." Again, I ask on the sec channel what evidence there was for my crime. Again, nobody can pull up a solid answer. Frustrated, I ask the captain to pardon me over the command channel. The captain and the head of security both pardon me over the security channel, the captain doing it twice, at which point he says "I am the law." and bucklecuffs me to a chair in the escape shuttle, at which point I escape once and get arrested again once. The round then ends, and I redtext because I was arrested for no reason.
TL;DR - The shittest curity that ever existed. Arrested for no reason, disobeyed superiors.

Why they should be banned: I'm not saying that he should get a full ban, just that he should be banned from security roles. Rules that he broke:
1. Don't be a dick. He was ignoring me and carting me around the station without any proof that I did anything, and ignored two (three if you count me) higher ranking crewmembers that pardoned me. In addition, he arrested me while I was fighting weeds.
4 (Security Precedent). Security is not an exception to rule 4. He ignored all his superiors and did whatever he wanted.

Never seen anyone be this mad over denied greentext before tbh

It's not even greentext it's over shitcurity. If someones having fun and having guns on them even as antag if they have a LEGITIMATE EXCUSE and a WEAPON PERMIT there's no reason to arrest them especially if no one else on sec channel backs you up

Except the guy was set to wanted, nobody on the security channel worth listening to was saying anything, and the guy was trespassing at a crimescene

He was an "official" he has clearance to do literally anything he wants. The captain and HoS even said he was cool when he was on station.

Captain spent the round pardoning obviously rogue behavior, fuck listening to that guy. His "official" status means nothing when people are dying due to hacked mulebots and he's standing around cargo with a giant W next to his name, which at least prompted a search.

He was an "official" he has clearance to do literally anything he wants. The captain and HoS even said he was cool when he was on station.

Thing is, after I searched him and found 2 guns he also had a PDA with his real ID and a jumpsuit in his pack. So really I assumed the guy got his shit at an away mission or another z-level.

Please note that actual centcom officials seldom get protection from security outside of RP. And with the focus of many events being "fake" officials, the crew is under no obligation to believe announcements, since they have been used widely to deceive the crew.

Please note that actual centcom officials seldom get protection from security outside of RP. And with the focus of many events being "fake" officials, the crew is under no obligation to believe announcements, since they have been used widely to deceive the crew.

That's dangerous precedent. Now every valid hunter is just going to shit all over or kill any centcom official becase "lol the announcement can be from a tator item". With that you might as well remove the traitor announcement altogether.

TechnoAlchemist wrote:Please note that actual centcom officials seldom get protection from security outside of RP. And with the focus of many events being "fake" officials, the crew is under no obligation to believe announcements, since they have been used widely to deceive the crew.

Laaaaaaaame

I'm not setting a precedent I'm just saying that this is what I have observed and it is rarely if ever punished. And yes it is lame, I agree but this server just doesn't do anything about it

cmspano wrote:

Please note that actual centcom officials seldom get protection from security outside of RP. And with the focus of many events being "fake" officials, the crew is under no obligation to believe announcements, since they have been used widely to deceive the crew.

That's dangerous precedent. Now every valid hunter is just going to shit all over or kill any centcom official becase "lol the announcement can be from a tator item". With that you might as well remove the traitor announcement altogether.

That's why official NanoTrasen officials roll with ERT teams full of greentext hungry powergamers.

Laimfu wrote: people are dying due to hacked mulebots and he's standing around cargo with a giant W next to his name

Wouldn't it be more likely for the cargo techs or qm to hack the mules than an atmos tech?

TechnoAlchemist wrote:Please note that actual centcom officials seldom get protection from security outside of RP. And with the focus of many events being "fake" officials, the crew is under no obligation to believe announcements, since they have been used widely to deceive the crew.

Laimfu wrote:Never seen anyone be this mad over denied greentext before tbh

Literally the worst possible attitudes anyone could possibly hold about this. I think the quality of the defense here is enough to illustrate that he needs at least a dayban, at worst a job ban for such terrible valid-salad hunting, unapologetic violations of rule 1.

DanielRatherman wrote:

TechnoAlchemist wrote:Please note that actual centcom officials seldom get protection from security outside of RP. And with the focus of many events being "fake" officials, the crew is under no obligation to believe announcements, since they have been used widely to deceive the crew.

Laimfu wrote:Never seen anyone be this mad over denied greentext before tbh

Literally the worst possible attitudes anyone could possibly hold about this. I think the quality of the defense here is enough to illustrate that he needs at least a dayban, at worst a job ban for such terrible valid-salad hunting, unapologetic violations of rule 1.

Funny because I think it perfectly illustrated how stupid this is. If you have a big W over your head and are found with stolen weapons from the armory than I have no idea what else to expect than getting brigged.

Would you arrest the HoS if they had a W over their head? (If you answered 'yes' to this, rethink playing Security.) Having weapons is perfectly acceptable when you're authorised to have weapons; and if both your superior officers pardon someone (especially if that someone is also your superior officer), you're supposed to stop arresting them. It's also probably a good idea to talk first and shoot later - "Sir, you've been set to Wanted status by someone - do you have any idea why this might've happened?" is much better than "Zap zap, you're under arrest, OH LOOK A GUN".

TheNightingale wrote: *Nightingale's guide to being found dead in maintenance*

If you are going to ban for first tazing people and than talking than you just banned 90% of security players.

It's all case by case. There are some people you talk to first before arresting and searching them, but most people it's tase then search.

As far as I can tell defending this puts you in an inescapable catch 22.

Either you insist you did nothing wrong- and we're left to assume that you intentionally acted on meta-knowledge that "well there's never really any inspectors so the fact this person outranks me x1000 and could have me executed and my SE deleted on a whim is irrelevant because I know its a tator and i want my valids." and also ignored higher ranking officers, broke the chain of command, and violated rule 1, meaning admin involvement is needed.

Or you accept that you violated the rules and the spirit of the rules in doing this, and therefor set the precedent that rule 1 matters and valid hunting doesn't trump what RP and decorum rules we have left, in which case no punishment would really be necessary, but it would insist that this kind of behavior needs to be toned down seriously if we want any fun or gimmicks to work at all.

Spike is just a shitcurity, a real shitcurity as you can see it in guide to shitcurity at wiki, no more no less. He seems to really hate whoever has more in-game rights or all-access or whatever, and is a valid hunter. That is speaking from my experience

I'm resolving this as inactionable, if you want this guy banned that badly you'll need something that is much less of an edge case, and something that we actively ban for.