Roundtable 3/20 6pm EST

Post by **oranges** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:40 pm #76739

Bottom post of the previous page:

Mumble is better than teamspeak, objectively and technically

QuartzCrystal · Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:57 pm

Just get on mumble, 3 minutes!

EndgamerAzari · Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:05 pm

Shit, wish I could be there, but I'm stuck at work for another hour.

Shadowlight213 · Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:08 pm

How the fuck do you connect to the mumble server? It keep asking me for a port, but there is no port?

tedward1337 · Post by **tedward1337** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:11 pm #76745

palpatine213 wrote:How the fuck do you connect to the mumble server? It keep asking me for a port, but there is no port?

There should be a default port you connect too

Bluespace · Post by **Bluespace** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:21 pm #76746

Default is 64738.

nsos · Post by **nsos** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:43 pm #76751

>connection refused
is it over boys

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:47 pm #76753

nsos · Post by **nsos** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:47 pm #76754

help me boys

nsos · Post by **nsos** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:56 pm #76756

nsos wrote:help me boys

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:58 pm #76757

Is your computer plugged into the wall?

nsos · Post by **nsos** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:04 pm #76759

how do i tell

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:21 pm #76761

step 1: Find the wall.

Allohsnackbar · Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:26 pm

Sticky has been shilling this entire round table.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:33 pm #76765

Does that mean he's got the license to shill?

Watch out, he's a Complete Zero agent!
okay, I'll stop

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:54 am #76781

Ah what a great clusterfuck. So here's the full score:

HG has quit as headmin, but is remaining as head coder.
SoS is totally removed from authority. Headmins are essentially host-level authorities when it comes to the server and its circumstances.

This happened as a result of a disagreement of policy and misuse of admin tools in a situation where Stickymayhem was a traitor captain and SoS made a centcom announcement out'ing him to the rest of the crew after being killed.

Because of HG's sudden absence we're very likely to step the next elections up a month so that we might be able to put together a full headmin panel again. I have to confirm it with Ikky because we haven't talked post-roundtable to confirm.

I'll have a link to the roundtable discussion (it's over two hours!) with video up soon. Yes it's hosted on my youtube. No it doesn't have any advertisements or any of that shit on it.

EDIT:

There's your link

Post by **Vekter** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:56 am #76782

So a triumverate? Nice. What's keeping SoS from just re-hosting himself and deleting everything/banning everyone?

Remie Richards · Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:59 am

Vekter wrote:So a triumverate? Nice. What's keeping SoS from just re-hosting himself and deleting everything/banning everyone?

The fact that he could have done that at any point anyways?
Like when he was deadminned for a bit, he could have easily pulled this then, but he didn't because he's not stupid.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:02 am #76785

Didnt this happen before? Pretty sure he "stepped down" last time and still kept giving himself admin powers. How is this time any different?

Post by **lumipharon** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:09 am #76787

Yeah uh, he did re-admin himself after saying he wouldn't last time, to punish someone. But that's not the point.

He seems pretty serious about this, and afaik, was of his own choosing.

Also no point in worrying about somthing that we ultimately can't control anyway.

Post by **oranges** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:11 am #76789

http://www.xeon.pw/~francis/recordings/

Roundtable 3 recordings and chatlog now available

Anon3 is uploading a youtube video for those who want to match names to faces etc

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:29 am #76796

lumipharon wrote:Yeah uh, he did re-admin himself after saying he wouldn't last time, to punish someone. But that's not the point.

How is it not the point? Its exactly the point. There is no basis for trust here. He has broken agreements with headmins before. No reason to believe this time will be different.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:16 am #76821

Alex Crimson wrote:
lumipharon wrote:Yeah uh, he did re-admin himself after saying he wouldn't last time, to punish someone. But that's not the point.

How is it not the point? Its exactly the point. There is no basis for trust here. He has broken agreements with headmins before. No reason to believe this time will be different.

I actually had similar concerns.

So I'm taking over. Totally serious. I'm actually 100% for real now your new host. I will pull double duty as a host/headmin until we can have these next elections, at which point I will obviously not be running, and step back into a more oversight/community direction type role.

Aside from the concerns that this was a half measure, I realized that this system needs a single host behind it. Everything this is heaped on the three headmins is already quite a bit to handle for six months, as unfortunately it appears no headministration has been able to keep their own court in order without someone quitting or some such in that period of time. I talked to SoS and he said it was on the table for someone to take.

So I'm taking it.

Remie Richards · Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:22 am

I for one welcome our new Goat overlord.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:31 am #76824

We spent close to an hour talking about whether or not An0n3 is host and it was debated and decided that headmins would still be in charge and suddenly an0n3 just decided hours later, away from everyone to be a host. I for one, think it's bullshit.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:41 am #76827

I hate to put it this way but me stepping in as host is the most prevention and best thing I can do to make sure SoS stays away from those controls. I talked to him about it and he at least commended me as one of a handful of people he felt comfortable handing it over to and could handle it.

So I'm taking it.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:45 am #76828

Ikarrus has zero knowledge nor input his opinion on this. It's taking advantage of the situation.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:58 am #76831

Is it that big of a deal? so long as he doesnt abuse his host/admin powers then i dont care who hosts. Hell id be happy with SoS if he would stop acting the way he does.

My only reservation is that i really didnt like how Anon and HG handled the ERP ban policy. So id be worried about situations like that coming up where new policies appear out of nowhere.

buuut whatever.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:02 am #76832

I've been emailing Ikarrus about this the entire time.

He said something that was really telling and kind of sad for me to hear.
It's not wrong to say of the three of us I'm the most willing to keep going after this.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:27 am #76834

[center][/center]

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:50 am #76838

I feel really bad that he's on vacation trying to enjoy himself and I've sent him...

Like seven emails altogether over the last 24 hours explaining what is happening at different junctions.

The show must go on.

I've deputized MSO and HBL for the moment. We're holding a very quick election in adminbus to name two deputy headmins to sit in place until the actual election which has been sped up to April.

Post by **oranges** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:03 am #76839

you've given yourself an immense amount of power with nothing more than a 6 month mandate from people to be a headmin as your backing

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:12 am #76841

So from what's being said, it was originally agreed to split host status amongst the headmins, the not long after Anon says he's the new host after the fact?

Seems like a poor move to make.

Remie Richards · Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:34 am

He's explained his reasoning.
and for me atleast they make sense.

It's a preventative measure to ensure SoS isn't sat at the controls, someone else has too.
and Ikky is on vacation so there's no one else.

Post by **oranges** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:42 am #76845

I would prefer if it was 3 someone elses, duly elected by the admins, the players and the SoS/Coder vote and aware that their term is only 6 months, rather than one person, who was in the right place at the right time to give themselves an essentially unbounded term as sole controller of the the future of tgstation

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:31 am #76849

Quick blacklist Oranges and start abusing power before they can stop you.

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:57 am #76851

I trust Anon not to suddenly become Hitler and ban elections, personally.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:00 am #76852

Ok can we just clarify some stuff first?

During the round table, SoS/anon basically defined host as 'person who controls the server, in that anon would control the server, but sos would still physically run it.
And everyone seemed to understand that this was how it was going to be, and was ok with it.

Now Anon is saying he is for real host, is that just recapping what was said or like, are you actually going to physically host it?

Sort out the terminology mang.

Either way, it seems like the only logical path forwards anyway.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:39 pm #76861

An0n3 wrote: I've deputized MSO and HBL for the moment.

Spoiler:

all of this everything is stupid

TheNightingale · Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:46 pm

For now, somebody that isn't SoS (I have nothing against you personally, but that seems to be the general consensus) needs to control the server, whilst SoS runs the server (i.e. the big machines and the bills). This person is An0n3.

When everything settles down and Ikarrus returns from his holiday, will host powers still be shared amongst the headmins, à la triumvirate?

AdenAbrafo · Post by **AdenAbrafo** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:29 pm #76866

oranges wrote:I would prefer if it was 3 someone elses, duly elected by the admins, the players and the SoS/Coder vote and aware that their term is only 6 months, rather than one person, who was in the right place at the right time to give themselves an essentially unbounded term as sole controller of the the future of tgstation

This.
It doesn't matter if he isn't going to magically become Hitler and turn into a douchebag, the administrative authority of the host shouldn't be chosen by opportunity and backed up by the person's friends saying they won't be a bad person. It isn't a preventative measure either because SoS has given up control so it's not like if the community takes time to deliberate SoS will be griefing and announcing policy changes.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:44 pm #76867

It's like nothing is good enough for you people. Our host quit, and we got an immediate replacement. Would you rather fall into a void of insecurity first where the fate of the server and this entire community is questionable for God knows how long?

AdenAbrafo · Post by **AdenAbrafo** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:54 pm #76868

Being melodramatic much? It's clear that SoS is fine with physically hosting it. There is no need for an immediate replacement in the administrative capacity that is essentially being chosen by the replacement. We aren't going to fall into a 'void of insecurity' where our fate is 'questionable for God knows how long' just because we take the time to actually decide who takes the administrative power of host.

Decent headmin in a triumvirate =/= Good administrative host alone

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:14 pm #76874

Good thread. A bit melodramatic though.

Running elections early is a good idea. We had some significant shift in the upper management so it would be wise to have one.

I don't want to play Game of Thrones: Internet Edition and get into ridiculous power struggles over whatever the hell a virtual host even means or if we even need one. It's a video game server, we don't need a preposterous hierarchy. I'll be around to help keep the actual game running and that's all I'm interested in.

Note: China blocks google so I can't hear the roundtable recording.

TheNightingale · Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:19 pm

I don't think An0n3 is saying he's going to be the only administrative host, Aden. He's simply filling the gap until a triumvirate of headmins/administrative hosts can be established.

The community can and will take time to deliberate, but for now, we do need someone to take charge. Since SoS nominated An0n3, it seems fair for him to be our regent whilst a proper monarchy (that is to say, the previously-mentioned triumvirate of in-charge headmins) is formed.

Ikarrus, the logs of the roundtable are here - or here if the first link is blocked.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:22 pm #76877

Pastebin is blocked but xeon is not.

Thanks.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:33 pm #76878

Ikky has a good point. I tried explaining this whole drama clusterfuck to my girlfriend and her response was just "Wait, all this political bullshit is about that space game you play?" It kinda helped put it in perspective for me. This is a game. Something we do for fun. There is no reason to have so much bad blood and drama over it all.

I also would like some clarity about the whole host thing. When you say you are becoming the host do you mean you are going to be footing the bill to keep the shitshow running and setting up the physical machine and stuff? Because anything other than that is just another appointed position.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:52 pm #76880

AdenAbrafo wrote:Being melodramatic much? It's clear that SoS is fine with physically hosting it. There is no need for an immediate replacement in the administrative capacity that is essentially being chosen by the replacement. We aren't going to fall into a 'void of insecurity' where our fate is 'questionable for God knows how long' just because we take the time to actually decide who takes the administrative power of host.

Decent headmin in a triumvirate =/= Good administrative host alone

The only people being melodramatic here are those that make a big deal out of An0n taking over the host's responsibilities for now. I am aware that SoS is still the physical host, but at this point he is nothing more than the IT guy who looks after the machines. You need someone responsible for the servers, a host who looks over them beyond just making sure that all the lights are on. And it's true that you can put the Headmins as a team in charge of that, but one of them quit in addition to the Host, which leaves us with a huge power void. When I talk about insecurity I mean that, without anyone stepping in to take over SoS' responsibilities, we'd lack that top layer of responsibility over the servers themselves.

And I'm not talking about authority, I'm talking about responsibility. SoS is clearly incapable of handling the authority of being the host, but he did and does a fine job actually running the servers themselves.

Stickymayhem · Post by **Stickymayhem** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:26 pm #76887

I'm not particularly happy that this all occurred after a discussion with the community which was meant to resolve these issues, without their input, but at the end of the day the affect these political things have on the actual players in game will hopefully be negligible.

Anon has presumably completed most of his agenda at this point, being closer to the end of the headmin cycle. As long as the elections are still appropriately held and he doesn't go batshit I'm sure we'll be fine for the time being.

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:00 pm #76888

Sounds a lot like Anon3 was just upset that scaredy changed his mind during the roundtable, because scaredy most definitely said "I'm handing over administrative responsibilities to the headmins, but I'll continue to host the server and make sure things run and do updates"

I for one, do not welcome this sudden change in power. Do you even have the experience required to host the server?

AdenAbrafo · Post by **AdenAbrafo** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:12 pm #76890

Ricotez wrote:You need someone responsible for the servers, a host who looks over them beyond just making sure that all the lights are on.

Why is Anon3 that person? Just because he was elected a headmin by the players doesn't automatically mean he should be put in a host position, especially without community input. It's not making a big deal out of it it's questioning whether it's a good decision. If it is the best decision then he'll end up as the host, if not then a better decision will be made. Rushing the process and forcing someone into the position for the sake of filling the position is silly.