Fungal Tuberculosis is something else

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:55 pm #145486

Obligatory i ded pls nerf but good god man this thing is insane. It kills the entire station in seconds and it's basically impossible to cure people because of the constant permastunning from the vomitting.

It's literally macrobombs as a different item.

rev_benji · Post by **rev_benji** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:05 pm #145488

p.s.i ded to it too

Super Aggro Crag · Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:08 pm

GOOD NEWS: we're stuck with it until february!

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:09 pm #145491

If it breaks the game like macrobombs do (which it will I'll spam this every single round until it gets fixed) coders can violate the freeze until it gets changed.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:19 pm #145495

You got robusted because I spaced the spaceacillin, rather than anything else.

Nobody thinks "there's a virus outbreak apparently, maybe I should put on internals and stay away from blood spills".
It's a unique weapon which nobody seems to understand how to beat because they're focused on not wearing air protection, not wearing touch protection, and not focused on getting the VACCINE, and instead opting for the cure (which has a low chance).

I'll see how I can nerf it, but it's more of a case of "i don't know how to counter it"

Not to mention it's 20 TC.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:31 pm #145499

Something that REQUIRES an entire department (of which most of the members of which fuck off at round start) to work together perfectly with nothing going wrong is a horrible way to balance something.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:41 pm #145501

Half the cure is in a sleeper, the other half isn't hard to make.

Not to mention any spacesuit, any internals, and any biosuit, any sterile mask (which medbay staff start off with), prevents infection.

I don't want to act smug, but it's the equivalent of complaining about initropidril heart attacks being impossible to counter because nobody knows how to use a defib.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:57 pm #145502

The issue here is that initropidril is a lot harder to effectively use and get than this virus. You buy the box, you use the box, you use the vaccine on yourself, then merrily walk around toolboxing the vomiting masses until everyone is dead. That's the thing about a lot of things out of the uplink, they're easy to get, but not as easy to use or as effective as station items.

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:24 pm #145511

Saying "lel just get a biosuit" doesn't help the 50 people that get infected before they have a chance to realise what is going on.
Constant vomiting is retardly OP. It fucking chain stuns you and ass fucks your hunger so even if you're not stunned, you're barely able to move anyway.

And since when did the sterile mask alone stop airborne viruses?

A more interesting virus would be if it could mutate, so that it's cure changes over time/can reinfect people that cured the old strain, rather then this ggnore shit.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:34 pm #145516

lumipharon wrote:Saying "lel just get a biosuit" doesn't help the 50 people that get infected before they have a chance to realise what is going on.
Constant vomiting is retardly OP. It fucking chain stuns you and ass fucks your hunger so even if you're not stunned, you're barely able to move anyway.

And since when did the sterile mask alone stop airborne viruses?

A more interesting virus would be if it could mutate, so that it's cure changes over time/can reinfect people that cured the old strain, rather then this ggnore shit.

1. That's a player problem. I can't be responsible for the hordes of people trying to break into chemistry when it only makes it worse.
2. Since ever. I've cured GBS, p-throat, magnitis, and brainrot wearing nothing but a biosuit, hood, shoes, gloves, and sterile mask.

Zilenan91 wrote:The issue here is that initropidril is a lot harder to effectively use and get than this virus. You buy the box, you use the box, you use the vaccine on yourself, then merrily walk around toolboxing the vomiting masses until everyone is dead. That's the thing about a lot of things out of the uplink, they're easy to get, but not as easy to use or as effective as station items.

You don't get a free vaccine.

Incomptinence · Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:56 pm

No touching no breathing just warn the chemists to put their internals on and they will be fine the rest of medbay can use the biosuits to handle the sick.

The absolute best way to develop any vaccine is to infect and fresh monkey loaded up already with the cure. A stage 1 virus is a very weak thing it just perishes.

We need lethal viruses the stuff virology makes by default is too weak see how soft people have become here.

ShadowDimentio · Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:04 pm

Virology needs an update. Nobody's touched it in millenia

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:16 pm #145531

ShadowDimentio wrote:Virology needs an update. Nobody's touched it in millenia

Wilco. Waiting for freeze to thaw.

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:39 pm #145536

Incomptinence wrote:No touching no breathing just warn the chemists to put their internals on and they will be fine the rest of medbay can use the biosuits to handle the sick.

The absolute best way to develop any vaccine is to infect and fresh monkey loaded up already with the cure. A stage 1 virus is a very weak thing it just perishes.

We need lethal viruses the stuff virology makes by default is too weak see how soft people have become here.

A competent viro is lethal as shit - if you're only releasing 1 virus instead of 10-20, you're doing it wrong.
The only down side is it takes time to build up that sort of arsenal.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:48 pm #145540

lumipharon wrote:
Incomptinence wrote:No touching no breathing just warn the chemists to put their internals on and they will be fine the rest of medbay can use the biosuits to handle the sick.

The absolute best way to develop any vaccine is to infect and fresh monkey loaded up already with the cure. A stage 1 virus is a very weak thing it just perishes.

We need lethal viruses the stuff virology makes by default is too weak see how soft people have become here.
A competent viro is lethal as shit - if you're only releasing 1 virus instead of 10-20, you're doing it wrong.
The only down side is it takes time to build up that sort of arsenal.

Nah they're completely neutered and any semi-decent virus is visible as hell and gets you lynched almost immediately.

Mathmatically it is physically impossible to make a deadly virus that hits all categories of:
Stealthy.
Deadly.
Good transmittance speed.
Hard to cure.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:32 am #145557

why would you waste your time with stealth?

You make 20 nasty, airborn diseases, spread out their resistance to maximise the amount of cures required, then unleash them via 5 different monkeys outside medbay.
Each disease only needs 1 or at most 2 active ingredients (blood vomit, necro, blindness etc etc), the rest you fill out with buffing symptoms.

As people catch x3 combustion/blinding/blood vomit/deafening diseases and eventually cure them, they immediately contract other strains from other people, making it extremely hard to completely shed all the viruses.
Once everyone is deaf blind and crippled, and stumbling into each other and setting each other on fire while vomiting blood/dying from necro, good luck trying to lynch the disguised viro with totally immunity thanks to 3 positive viruses filling their virus quota.

For bonus points, you call all the viruses the same thing, so it makes vaccination extremely impractical.

Alex Crimson · Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:37 am

lumipharon wrote:why would you waste your time with stealth?

You make 20 nasty, airborn diseases, spread out their resistance to maximise the amount of cures required, then unleash them via 5 different monkeys outside medbay.
Each disease only needs 1 or at most 2 active ingredients (blood vomit, necro, blindness etc etc), the rest you fill out with buffing symptoms.

As people catch x3 combustion/blinding/blood vomit/deafening diseases and eventually cure them, they immediately contract other strains from other people, making it extremely hard to completely shed all the viruses.
Once everyone is deaf blind and crippled, and stumbling into each other and setting each other on fire while vomiting blood/dying from necro, good luck trying to lynch the disguised viro with totally immunity thanks to 3 positive viruses filling their virus quota.

For bonus points, you call all the viruses the same thing, so it makes vaccination extremely impractical.

This never happens. In my entire time playing SS13, ive never once seen a Virologist do this. Know why? Because it takes like 40 minutes when rounds usually last around 20. Even if you get lucky with the RNG symptoms, its pointless to spread viruses when half the station is dead because the other traitors just bombed the station or went on a killing spree.

/tg/ needs job-specific traitor items. Then Virology tators need some kind of special Pandemic circuit board that just lets you produce any kind of symptom like a chem dispenser.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:45 am #145566

I know, I did say the only drawback is that it takes time.

I'm just pointing out that viro is extremely potent.

Alex Crimson · Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:56 am

Doesnt matter how good it sounds when you theorycraft it like that. It never happens. Its never going to happen. There are too many factors that work against Virologists. Especially with this new traitor item being better than anything Viro can make. Virology is dead. Its been stale for a long time now.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:54 am #145574

I have done it multiple times, it's not theory crafting.
I've also seen other people (read: one person) do something similar.

As you said though, it's not practical unless the round goes on for a good while.

newfren · Post by **newfren** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:55 am #145596

God I cannot imagine making myself 3 buffing diseases AND THEN making another tonne of harming diseases. If there was something like a 10-14 tc board along the lines of Alex's suggestion it would be amazing but also probably a little too strong.

I think more practical is to just beg for a virus crate at the start of the shift and then give people beesease/magnitis/third awful disease, then get yourself some hiding gear for the fallout.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:08 pm #145602

Too much theory going on.

Here's the practical side of things:

I've only ever seen two rounds the virus crate is ordered.
1st round resulted in magnitis, brainrot, and beesease being leaked out. Shuttle was called, virologist was killed.

2nd round resulted in the clown breaking in to virology and self infecting himself with p-throat. Virologist was killed, clown was killed, shuttle was called.

There was this other round where a viro wanted the virus crate, and the CMO was killed by 2 cargo techs and a QM by orders from the HOS and Captain for authorising the virologist to order it.

Turns out it was a gang round, and the viro had infected everyone (including his own gang) except himself with his "potent custom virus".
The virologist was killed, and it took me 3 minutes to make the cure and vaccine and undo 30 minutes of his work.

Here's the problem with custom viruses:
More lethal = too easy to cure.
More stealth = not lethal enough/does nothing.
Harder to find cure = not stealthy enough.
Better resistance to cure = easier to find cure and not lethal enough.

Spontaneous combustion is overrated. It's an incredibly weak, gimmicky symptom that pays for it's unique mechanics and function by absolutely tanking other stats.

I will be introducing new viruses with unique mechanics when the freeze is over. Some of which are flat lethal.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:49 pm #145629

Reagent based virology would be pretty interesting in my opinion to be honest.

At the very least, viro needs a complete overhaul with many cures to diseases being stuff that's trivially easy to make/get. Hell it's only recently that nutriment was removed as a cure and replaced with salt. While useful for making crippling viruses/beneficial viruses, virology lacks majorly in the lethality department. I have never been killed by a disease, I've been crippled but never killed, barring nanomachines borgifying me.

Post by **oranges** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:25 pm #145640

at the end of the freeze it's very likely hg is gonna remove virology

Incomptinence · Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:53 pm

oranges wrote:at the end of the freeze it's very likely hg is gonna remove virology

Why would he do that? Are you joking?

Super Aggro Crag · Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:20 pm

Incomptinence wrote:
oranges wrote:at the end of the freeze it's very likely hg is gonna remove virology
Why would he do that? Are you joking?

oranges is not a jokester

Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:03 pm

Incomptinence wrote:
oranges wrote:at the end of the freeze it's very likely hg is gonna remove virology
Why would he do that? Are you joking?

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/14239
gran gran codecuck strikes back

also, as for this virus:
i remember saying this would be just as abused as macrobombs and nobody believed me. now it's merged and people are saying it's macrobombs 2. gg j-madison (or should i say gay-madison. and now that you've been burned you can stay-mad-ison. got em)

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:15 pm #145988

Cost of virus kit: 20 TC.
Amount of time taken to isolate vaccine: 15 seconds.
Amount of time taken to vaccinate anyone important: 30 seconds.
Amount of time to virtually eradicate virus: 2 minutes.
Price of my laughter at how easy it was do to this: Priceless.

Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:21 pm

J_Madison wrote:
Cost of virus kit: 20 TC.
Amount of time taken to isolate vaccine: 15 seconds.
Amount of time taken to vaccinate anyone important: 30 seconds.
Amount of time to virtually eradicate virus: 2 minutes.
Price of my laughter at how easy it was do to this: Priceless.

price of the shuttle being called and the round being prematurely ended because people are sick of lining up at virology for the 3,000th round in a row: gay-madison

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:22 pm #146009

11 TC bomb in cloning/RND/bridge/brig/cargo/engineering does the same job.

Same with geting C4, stealing a plasma cannister, and flooding.

Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:27 pm

J_Madison wrote:11 TC bomb in cloning/RND/bridge/brig/cargo/engineering does the same job.

Same with geting C4, stealing a plasma cannister, and flooding.

true, but that doesn't make the meme virus is any better
stay-mad-ison

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:34 pm #146013

The BEST VIROLOGIST ROUND I EVER HAD was curing this virus. When people WANTED my big, scary needles.

1g88a · Post by **1g88a** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:31 am #146033

I was medbay staff in a round with an outbreak of this recently. The vaccine got pumped out pretty fast and the whole outbreak died out pretty quickly. In fact I think most casualties were those who started experiencing symptoms far from medbay/didn't notice there was an outbreak until it was too late. That said I do have a question regarding regular treatment, does it require larger amounts of salbutamol and spaceacillin or do the doses need to be administered quickly/in tandem because of how quickly the body metabolizes the reagents? Do both have to be present in the body at the same time to function?

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:37 am #146034

Logged on for once this week, observed, saw this bullshit, nearly pressed to "remove all diseases" button.

Who seriously thought this was a good idea?

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:43 am #146039

Every. Fucking. Round. Do we really want 2 0 M O R E D A Y S O F M E M E S ?

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:51 am #146041

It's per tick to cure. 5% chance of success. I'm not quite sure if you need both. you need both inside of you.

So 15u is 15/0.4 tick rate. Which gives you about 37.5 rolls to cure yourself of the virus with 5% chance per tick.

The vaccine needs about 0.04 to vaccinate yourself. So a 15u bottle could probably cure 100 players.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:53 am #146043

Yeah. The problem with it isn't that it's trival to cure, the problem is that this fucking shit happens every single round because it's SO EASY

It's easily more effective and also faster to acquire than any virus viro can make, so why does this even exist?

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:02 am #146050

Zilenan91 wrote:Yeah. The problem with it isn't that it's trival to cure, the problem is that this fucking shit happens every single round because it's SO EASY

It's easily more effective and also faster to acquire than any virus viro can make, so why does this even exist?

This is the virology equivalent of traitor Chems, and it's an actually dangerous virus.

Every other virus is locked behind a wall (cargo, CMO id) or flat terrible to use as a traitor.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:05 am #146052

Alright. You wanna know how I'd do this kind of thing? I'd make there be a 20 TC virus kit, with a collapsable virus machine and a limited amount of supplies to make viruses with, not making a god virus that's better than everything else everyone could make that completely obsoletes viro. Hell, why the fuck would a viro ever waste time on making a lethal disease in his workplace when he could just go get some tools, decon his machine, and then release this fucking shit to kill everyone because it's so easy to do.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:08 am #146054

Zilenan91 wrote:Alright. You wanna know how I'd do this kind of thing? I'd make there be a 20 TC virus kit, with a collapsable virus machine and a limited amount of supplies to make viruses with, not making a god virus that's better than everything else everyone could make that completely obsoletes viro. Hell, why the fuck would a viro ever waste time on making a lethal disease in his workplace when he could just go get some tools, decon his machine, and then release this fucking shit to kill everyone because it's so easy to do.

Because viruses on tg suck.

It's mathematically impossible to make a deadly virus without making it too easy to beat.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:12 am #146055

I think you're misunderstanding what viruses on /tg/ are supposed to do.

Viruses here aren't going to be goon-tier fuck you you're dead; here, they cripple you, make you unable to do things, make you blind, deaf, brain damaged, constantly vomiting and shitting out butterflies, not kill you in a heartbeat.

Also if your problem is that viruses here aren't deadly enough then buff viruses, not make it so that only traitors are the ones with decent viruses. Putting in this shit that all traitors, no matter the role, can shit out in 2 seconds is just awful because it turns every round into Plague Inc. not actually a game I want to play.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:37 am #146059

Zilenan91 wrote:I think you're misunderstanding what viruses on /tg/ are supposed to do.

Viruses here aren't going to be goon-tier fuck you you're dead; here, they cripple you, make you unable to do things, make you blind, deaf, brain damaged, constantly vomiting and shitting out butterflies, not kill you in a heartbeat.

Also if your problem is that viruses here aren't deadly enough then buff viruses, not make it so that only traitors are the ones with decent viruses. Putting in this shit that all traitors, no matter the role, can shit out in 2 seconds is just awful because it turns every round into Plague Inc. not actually a game I want to play.

First point I'm going to dispute because of GBS and other clearly deadly viruses meant to kill you.

I'm not going to touch buffing of custom viruses for a variety of reasons
First the symptoms themselves are too weak. And I'm not going to touch it considering how upset people got over a sneezing combustion virus

I don't see how this is more of an issue than a revolver. The entire concept is easier to beat. The difference is you can't beat a virus by brute force (combat) and actually requires someone to use their head.

Hell a bomb is cheaper and does more damage. It took me less time to make a vaccine than fix a room.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:38 am #146060

There's a reason GBS and the other deadly viruses are unobtainable by the crew.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:44 am #146061

Saegrimr wrote:There's a reason GBS and the other deadly viruses are unobtainable by the crew.

Why even have in the first place.

Anyway, this thread sprung up because I knew what I was doing and Prevented a cure. You don't say the revolver is overpowered if someone steals the lathe or prints off ammo.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:50 am #146062

Why even have the Energy Axe, or the Grey Tide, or the mime mech?

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:26 am #146065

The problem is that the easy stuff, like this tuberculosis and what you get in virus crates is so much more deadly than what you can make with a lot of effort in the lab.

nerf virus crates.
nerf this tuberculosis shit and reduce tc.
buff custom diseases.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:51 am #146078

After watching a fair amount of rounds with this being released in it, I can frankly say this is one of the worst additions to the game in awhile. I've only ever seen it cured once. It just makes everyone pass out and vomit everywhere. Every round it's released, it dominated the round in a vomit inducing stun cancer. It's an overpowered disease and an awful addition to the game regardless of the cure. It's not fun, it does not make the game more "traitoress" or whatever, it's just overly powerful, puts everyone on their ass, and ruins rounds.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:55 am #146079

I'd encourage the rest of the admins to just start hitting the "cure all diseases" button and maybe refund TCs. Its complete anti-fun.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:26 pm #146088

I'll take it out of traitor rotation. NukeOps keeps the grenades though.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:58 pm #146107

Are you serious? We finally get an actually dangerous virus, and everyone secrets enough

to cure their own heal viruses. I have never used this as a Traitor, but I have combated its use as a Virologist. People were not afraid to take my injections. They did not threaten to lynch me (well, only one did) for doing my job, and I did not feel as if I wasted my round making something powerful for the crew to enjoy only for nearly everyone to decline.

They WANTED my help. They SCREAMED for my help. They came to ME to take MY big, scary needle. Even the clown player, which is normally a greifing pain in the butt, laid there barfing and dying at my door. I drug her to my lab and used her to produce the vaccine. I did what very few virologist players actually get to do: THEIR ACTUAL JOB. It was FUN. I am normally hated and shunned just for existing. That round, Medbay was a disaster zone and a partial graveyard. I like to think that without there being a virologist that round, most of those people would have died, some may have died several times over.

It is difficult to have fun as a Virologist player when everyone suspects and distrusts you, when they pass up powerful beneficial viruses because they do not want "aids". Virologist players finally have a chance to provide a meaningful contribution to the crew, and you want to take that away. Disgusting.