New New New New New^50 Cult Feedback Thread

[Oldman Robustin]

Bottom post of the previous page:

There was never a difference for saccing living people before, why would there be now

Yes there was, for most of cult's existence it was preferable to sac the living for guaranteed shards or free rune words.

[Steelpoint]

What Oldman said, saccing a dead target was usually done when the person capturing them was forced to kill them for one of many reasons, or if the body just happend to be found. Or if you were playing during the period (I don't even know) where you did not need fifty people to sac a target if they were dead.

Personally I can't keep up with what's going on with Cult.

[Zilenan91]

There was never a difference for saccing living people before, why would there be now

Yes there was, for most of cult's existence it was preferable to sac the living for guaranteed shards or free rune words.

That got changed though so that saccing a dead body always gave a shard and words, it's been like that for months now.

[TheNightingale]

Either give newcult all the runes or let them convert people again.

[Oldman Robustin]

There was never a difference for saccing living people before, why would there be now

Yes there was, for most of cult's existence it was preferable to sac the living for guaranteed shards or free rune words.

That got changed though so that saccing a dead body always gave a shard and words, it's been like that for months now.

Cults existed for several years, and it was always better to sac a live body.

By the time "guaranteed shard" was added, free words were removed because you started with all words by that time anyway.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?



Seriously though, why the FUCK would anyone think its a good idea to make "Cult Ops" without a single fucking reliable stun. A single officer can stomp a cult base right now just using flashbangs. If you lose your tome you can't get a new one, and your spells are tied to your old tome anyway so security destroying/hiding your tome prevents the cult from getting access to your spells.

You know you've made a good mode when you have 5 antags who have to take down the entire crew and their first priority is securing stunprod material because thats the only fucking thing that lets them do their job, and even then its a suicidal effort once you hit 40+ players unless you've got atrociously bad sec players.

Can we end this trend of letting people just completely gut functioning game modes without the slightest fucking idea of how to replace it with something remotely decent?

[Cik]

make stun/veil runes runes (lel) scribe faster. i want to create hallway traps of stun runes and use it to steal people.

also do stun runes detonate when veiled? if not that must be fixed thanks.

[onleavedontatme]

>cult
>functioning game mode

It's core mechanic was so confusing it was scrapped and for months scaling would start you with your objectives finished.

Literally the most challenging part of cult was to get people to stand in a square

[Cik]

>implying that isn't hard

>implying cult is easy

no

[Oldman Robustin]

There were so many simple solutions to any of cult's problems


Research was scrapped due to confusion but we got something worse in the form of all words available at roundstart.


The simple solution would be that obtaining X sacrifices/converts would unlock higher tiers of words.

Also consuming the bind talisman rune when invoked would also have put the brakes on the stunpaper factory. Its easy to get lots of stunpaper when you can just draw 4 stun runes around 1 bind rune and spam it for 4 stun papers. Even I wouldn't stuff my backpack with stun talismans if I had to redraw both runes every time.

Instead of little tweaks, some idiot was given the green light to completely gut cult and leave us with this unquestionable shitshow we have today that's going be 200% harder to redeem compared to the previous cult that had spents years experimenting and reaching a good spot in terms of balance.

[Zilenan91]

Cult isn't gutted. They're just a different antag as a whole, but they are quite weak in the early game and need some buffs.

[Oldman Robustin]

Cult isn't gutted. They're just a different antag as a whole, but they are quite weak in the early game and need some buffs.

Oldcult was removed when this new shit was added, this new shit wasn't an "update" or a "fix", it is a completely different mode. Oldcult was gutted for this new shit.

[Incoming]

This is not a promise but my gut instinct is that post datum antags, both oldcult and newcult will exist as separate kinds of cults. Nothing's ever really "lost" in git, it's just a matter of working it back in. I gotta say all the huge mode changes in the last few days is gonna make my job harder, but whatever.

[Tsaricide]

I did not think it was possible to make cult worse, and then I played as new cult.

I'm sorry tk but please don't do this.

[callanrockslol]

I did not think it was possible to make cult worse, and then I played as new cult.

I'm sorry tk but please don't do this.

Is it worse than when Sabbat changed a bunch of stuff and left before he finished?

[1g88a]

I was in a cult round today that actually went pretty well, the only problem was that we were unsure of how to actually acquire orbs. Sec was either small or incompetent though so the two officers who attacked us were easily taken care of.

[Zilenan91]

You acquire orbs for every sacrifice. If you can, sacrifice people rather than shard htem since saccing drops both an orb and a filled soulshard.

[1g88a]

You acquire orbs for every sacrifice. If you can, sacrifice people rather than shard htem since saccing drops both an orb and a filled soulshard.

What I meant was that we didn't know how to sacrifice the corpses we had amassed, either the person(s) who had the rune never put it down or we didn't get it, so we just started smacking the corpse pile with our daggers until orbs popped out. Why is it that sometimes the sacrificial taggers will convert a corpse into a pile of bones but other times an orb just appears while the corpse remains intact?

[InsaneHyena]

This cult is the best thing since sliced bread. I enjoy playing it very much, and it's a welcome improvement over the old one.

[onleavedontatme]

Played a round and won.

Never used any of my cult powers really. Stun prod was better.

I felt very exposed the whole time because all of my powers were very clunky/required set up, and any defensive position in ss13 is prone to being bombed/flashbanged etc.

Really having fuckall thats ranged and no flashbang protection is probably the biggest weakness.

Like it more than oldcult though. Had a fun final battle

[Malkevin]

3. Narsie having a mortal shell is shit lore.

That has been unofficially true forever though. It's why it's sprited the way it is

Back in the day, that monster used to just claw his way out of the fourth dimension like it was no ones business. All he needed was nine cultists, no stupid shell.

back in the day Nar-Sie was literally an asshole, now only figuratively

tho as much as I like an unfathomable sprite for a thing that should not be, summoning their elder god into a construct does fit cultists a bit more

[Malkevin]

There was never a difference for saccing living people before, why would there be now

Pretty sure I made saccing living people give more words, or it gave a new word to everyone, or something.

IIRC saccing a dead body only had a chance of giving you a new unknown word, it rolled the dice of the pool of all the words three times, so you had three attempts at getting a new unique word, meaning the more words you had the greater chance of getting a word you already had and the rune gave you a failure message.

Saccing a living person always guareented you were a granted an unknown word

Saccing the sac target gave each of the three cultists three unknown words, i can't remember if it made a difference between them being alive or not.

[Zilenan91]

Yeah I think that got changed at some point, like I said above.

[Malkevin]

>cult
>functioning game mode

It's core mechanic was so confusing it was scrapped and for months scaling would start you with your objectives finished.

Literally the most challenging part of cult was to get people to stand in a square

Actually wasn't due to scaling.

The free objective bug was caused by the sac target picking from the list of mobs instead of players, so it was picking the dead clowns on the crashed clown shuttle - which had no mind datum so it bugged out.

The simple solution would be that obtaining X sacrifices/converts would unlock higher tiers of words.

Something you would've had if someone hadn't thrown an autistic shitfit.

[InsaneHyena]

After playing a few cult rounds, I've came to a conclusion that it needs either a reliable stun or reliable anti-stun. Even shadowling's thralls have a good stun, but a cultist vs sec is virtually the same thing as a regular assistant vs sec.

[ShadowDimentio]

Bring back stun talisman and give the cultists all the runes at round start. Literally every cult round I've seen has had the cultists go "Well we don't have this ~ONE IMPORTANT RUNE~ so we might as well kill ourselves." after someone dies.

[onleavedontatme]

After playing a few cult rounds, I've came to a conclusion that it needs either a reliable stun or reliable anti-stun. Even shadowling's thralls have a good stun, but a cultist vs sec is virtually the same thing as a regular assistant vs sec.

Yeah pretty much.

[Zilenan91]

After playing a few cult rounds, I've came to a conclusion that it needs either a reliable stun or reliable anti-stun. Even shadowling's thralls have a good stun, but a cultist vs sec is virtually the same thing as a regular assistant vs sec.

Yeah they need some help early game, cultists have some really serious problems in high pop. In lowpop they tend to steamroll. I think in highpop (60+) they should have the stun landmine rune and summon armaments at roundstart on all of them.

[srifenbyxp]

New new new new new cult fucking sucks. A good cult would be revert to last cult but make it one man convert.

[ShadowDimentio]

So back to old old cult? I approve.

[Zilenan91]

Tk is a maintainer, I doubt he'd ever let it get merged. I wouldn't either, I'd fight a nigga in the streets if he tries to do it, anything is better than oldcult.

[Malkevin]

I've always said cult should've been reverted to "Two starting words" cult with sadbutt's tome UI change (which was the ONLY good thing he changed) merged into it.

Seemed to be the version that most people had fun with because it lacked the hour of boredom research caused and didn't start instantly as a slaughter fest like sac cult did.

Maybe someone should bring it back as a Classic Cult mode.

[Oldman Robustin]

@Malk

Your solution was only moderately worse than the monstrosity that has been cooked up here.

Tiered runes would've been better than gutting research altogether, but I think the best solution (as opposed to the simple solution) would have been to simply make the research process more intuitive to new players. Experts like me mastered it by literally memorizing the color and style of all functional runes so I would instantly know if I had correctly guessed a word.

That part sucked. The research process itself was an interesting minigame where you had to choose which word to test (since you could only effectively test words that mixed with the starting words) and then proceed in an order that made sense, i.e. you could only test for 'destroy' once you had discovered 'technology' and 'other' (just an hypo, not sure what words you actually needed). Focusing on the 'logic game' aspect of the research and less on the 'savant-tier memorization of runes' would have been great. Example: Drawing a proper rune would give you a short message saying "You've seen this rune before in your studies, its a blood boil rune!", so that research didn't require actual arcane knowledge to conduct.

But instead of having a unique and interesting aspect of cult that helped balance their progression, you have a bunch of runes hardcoded to books - which is completely awful.

[Malkevin]

Researched worked as long as the other two cultists weren't total gimps.

Most of the time they were total gimps.


re: tiered research - see my earlier reply.

[InsaneHyena]

Return cult 2016. I don't care which, I non-ironically like every version of the cult and want it back on the rotation.

[Zilenan91]

Newcult isn't good. It's not a mode that has ever really been finished and it very clearly has a lot of flaws. It's certainly better than any other derivative that has been put on the server though.

[InsaneHyena]

Now that cult is back on rotation, give cult it's stun papers back, please. The cult is absolutely defenseless without them.

[Luke Cox]

Now that cult is back on rotation, give cult it's stun papers back, please. The cult is absolutely defenseless without them.

Which cult is back?

[PKPenguin321]

Now that cult is back on rotation, give cult it's stun papers back, please. The cult is absolutely defenseless without them.

Which cult is back?

since there has been no PRs to revert newcult, probably newcult

[Luke Cox]

Now that cult is back on rotation, give cult it's stun papers back, please. The cult is absolutely defenseless without them.

Which cult is back?

since there has been no PRs to revert newcult, probably newcult

Absolutely disgusting